I found out this morning that my children have been saying prayers before lunch...

[cece]

We deliberately chose a non-church school (most of the local schools to us are church schools) as we are not religious and did not want our children educated in this way. In fact it is a community school.

But today DS told us that they say prayers before they go for lunch. DD (who is now in the juniors, so was there for 3 years) confirmed this... She knew the words off by heart.

Now I am not happy (at all) about this, and neither is DH.

My question is should I complain?

Yup, justabout and I do actually think that this is the core of the problem described in the OP: that one teacher is doing this, that it;s not school policy as such, so what is the teacher up to?

Wow, what a thread !!! Has taken me almost 2 hrs to read. Lots of 'food for thought'.
At first, I thought many of you were extreme. But then when I considered the idea of ds being encouraged to be a satanist,as seeker ? suggested, yes I admit, i didn't like that idea at all.

SheSellsSeashellsByTheSeashore you say "Those of you who are so against religion, do you celebrate Christmas?"

Now you may be shocked to hear that but christmas is not a christian celebration. Christmas was celebrated before the church decided to move christ's birthday over to it.

If they couldn't get people interested in going to their celebration they could rename the one everyone went to and pretend they had lots of devout followers.

It had more than one name, but you may heve heard of the Saturnalia. A time of feasting and drinking and exchanging gifts.

All the symbols of christmas which you probably think of as holy are pagan ones. Mistletoe and holly, Yule logs and trees. Fairies on the tree. Sacrificing an animal and eating it. When a christian celebrates christmas it's as inappropriate as though they had wondered into a mosque, prostrated themselves before Allah and declared him the one god.
It's probably a mortal sin (thou shalt not worship other gods)

OMG !! are you telling me JC was not born on December 25th ??

onagar, when was JC born then ? I did know that most of 'christmas' is pagan. but I didn't know they moved the 'birth of christ'. just shows how ignorant I am. Mind you ds asked me who noahs wife was, and I didn't know her name either !!

And there was a pagan winter festival at about that time called Yule - so every time you eat a piece of Yule log your are participating in a pagan rite. And you thought it was just a bit of chocolate cake!

Ooo I love a good stew of mixed up religious customs

Reminds me of my wedding day

Luckily we atheists can eat the cake and kiss under the mistletoe with a clear conscience. The rest of you will be doomed to spend eternity in

I didn't know that. I had no doubt that it probably wasn't the birth of christ, if indeed christ was born at all.

I also knew that Christmas had some Pagan traditions but I didn't know the christians had just outright stole a holiday.

I wasn't having a go at anyone, just curious as to how far people took this 'anti religion' stance.

I'm not religious, as such. I believe there is something after death. But I am not sure I believe in 'a god'. And I certainly don't agree with much of what the bible says.

I'd be a bit pee'd off if some one was telling dd1 that this religion is the one that is 'right' and/or pushing extreme religious views on her i.e. homophobia from the bible. But prayers at lunch time wouldn't really bother me. So long as they taught other religions alongside this.

It's absolutely FINE for children to be taught ABOUT religion. It's NOT all right for children to be expected to DO religion! The two things are completely different.

As I've commented before, people get up in arms if a school tries to control what parents put in lunch boxes - but they are quite relaxed about what schools put in children's heads. I do think that's a bit odd!

Happywomble, I'm glad you enjoy your Handel too. And the Trumpet shall ever sound!

I don't mind children singing hymns - some thumping good tunes there, just as there are in folk songs, secular songs, and Boolean pipe-tunes tootled out in praise of the great five-tentacled River God. All music is good.

I do however find the concept of state-prescribed 'collective worship' in schools quite astounding. To an atheist, you see, there is nothing there to 'worship' and it seems utterly bizarre to be insisting to children, with state collusion, that there is.

Actually, I would be amazed if any children is state schools "plough the fields and scatter" or contemplate "soft refreshing rain" these days. Hymns A and M has been replaced by Tuneless Wonders - no musical or literary virtue at all in the strange dirges they churn out nowadays!

You have a good point there Seeker..primary school hymns have definitely gone downhill since my day .

I can't be doing with the likes of "Shine Jesus Shine" and other cringeworthy "hymns". I was also disappointed at the lack of "we plough the fields" at harvest time at DS C of E school. DD is at a private school nursery and they seem to stick more to the traditional hymns thank goodness.

Bring back Jesus wants me for a sunbeam, give me oil in my lamp, kum by ah, and Summer suns are glowing etc.

will now read everything else posted since this morning!

Seeker

I think some hymns have had to change-I remember a childhood of singing-'Onwards Christian Soldiers' which is a rousing tune but not words that you would use these days!!

It's not the words so much - a lot of them were pretty grim it's the tunes! Or the random collection of notes that passes for a tune.

Now I'm feeling all nostalgic for those battered blue hymn books and old fashioned tunes bashed out on a piano....mind you, I'm going back to the 60s here

Ooh, I love real hymns:

For those in Peril on the Sea
Dear Lord and Father of Mankind
Jerusalem
I Vow to thee my Country...

All marvellous. Not a happy clappy crappy bit in them!

I am as un-religious as they come, despite my school's daily attempts to thrust christianity down my throat. But I still think hymns are ace. My DS is starting at a cathedral school in September - I can't wait to sing hymns in the cathedral, even if I have to listen to people praying as well...

Elibean - do you mean Songs of Praise? (And I'm going back to the late 80s here!)

I like hymns, especially seasonal ones (have a huge soft spot for many of the classic Victorian advent hymns). I woudn't have a problem with schools using some of the classics along with whatever the equivalent Muslim/Jewish/Hindu singalongs are (Um, BTW, I don't actually know if there are songs in the other major faiths that can be/are be taught to DC in such a fashion, but it would be nice if there were). And was in fact perfectly happy for DS to be in his nursery Nativity play last year because I viewed it in the same light as I would have done him being in a pantomime: learning the myths and acting in plays and singing songs are not the same as being told to communicate with an imaginary being.

Yes, songs of praise! I can remember the smell of those books, weirdly

I love them too Dottoressa-it would be a pity if today's DCs don't get to sing them.

SGB - I'm with you on Nativity plays. I see the stories as part of their education. Knowing about them isn't the same as thinking they're true!

I still have my Songs of Praise, albeit somewhat defaced (as a teenage act of rebellion against religion)...