Uniform debate - please help with your ideas and experience

[BonsoirAnna]

There is currently a debate going on at my DD's school about the introduction of full uniform, as opposed to current dress/colour code.

Could you please help me draw up a document for the Parents Association by giving your views on the advantages and disadvantages of school uniform? Thank you

'I don't remember clothes being all that much of a status symbol.' - belgiumchocolates talking about her own non uniform school.

I completely agree with this.

I remember in my student days reading an academic study on uniform and it was concluded that actually clothes being used as a symbol is more of a problem in uniformed schools. (I searched for it on the web and can't find it - sorry Anna)

It makes complete sense - if the one choice you have is what shoes and bag to wear you are going to tear your hair and your parents' hair out to make sure it is the right style or brand etc... If you can wear your new t-shirt and comfy jeans that you love to school you won't be in a tizzy about your shoes being the sensible ones Mum guided you towards.

OK, I'll try a different approach - so, let's say for the sake of argument that all schools in Paris adopt school uniform - is anonymity still an issue or do you then encourage your DD to wear her uniform with pride?

teafortwo that make sense to me. From what I hear from my brother whose 2dcs are the same age as mine, his children don't really care what they wear, where as mine are a lot more fashion conscious. Lunch boxes in particular spring to mind.

The school uniform debate is pretty well balanced in terms of pros/cons and from what I can see the research is inconclusive.

So, how about this?

A 'referendum' after a public debate on a school by school basis - Anna vs the Demon Headmaster .

thedolly - a more realistic example is to ask whether, if I moved back to the UK, I would be happy for my DD to wear school uniform. And the answer is: of course. That is what you (mostly) do in the UK.

It's all about adapting to local culture.

Anna - just so you know that I am not making light of your concerns I have found this for you:-

www.members.tripod.com/rockqu/uniform.htm

WARNING - it is 'heavy'!

It has made me think though. Perhaps the Gov't are thinking of implementing an introduction of school uniforms in the hope of getting wider educational reforms accepted?

No school uniforms in Greece either I see .

another argument:

at a recent inter school event, it was only our school (they were all primaries) that had a very relaxed uniform and the team looked a bit of a mess compared to the other schools. And the thing is, the kids noticed and were a bit embarassed of it. So I think it is a good idea to have a uniform and to stick to it - no need to be expensive. At least for away days/team things - it helps with a sense of team pride/identity

When I think back to when I was at school, I hated my uniform, especially when I was a teenager because I felt it was not 'me'. That it limited my ability to express myself, but now I think that's a really childish view. I am still me no matter what I wear and I think that's about self confidence, so, I will endeaver to teach my son that he can always just be himself no matter what he is wearing.

I am very much pro-unform now. For all the saftey advantages, praticality, the social reasons and the financial reasons.

However, I do think that the school needs to give a great deal of thought into which unform they choose. At my secondary school I was to hot in the summer, to cold in the winter because the uniform was the same all year round. It was comfortable though. It was only sold in one place because of the logo on it and it was far to expensive (and I was aware of this from a young age, which is wrong).

What I'm saying is the unform should be affordable, 100% cotton (the PE shirt used to bring me out in rash!), comfortable, suitable for the weather and really simple. Easy to put on (no tie! I am not putting my son in a tie when he starts school aged 5!)

Mmmmm..... Anna - the more I think about it the more I think this uniform idea is really off the mark!

[slightly huffy emotion]

teafortwo - ooh good I have an ally .

There is no immediate cause for concern, but it is an ongoing issue bubbling away in the background. And will definitely arise at the next parent rep meeting, so it is good to have a fully formed, to-the-point argument.

Thank you everybody - very useful indeed

Good luck!

Thank you!

I hate school uniform and think it is used as a way of preventing any individuality. Certainly is in our school (I am a teacher).

Our uniform is very ugly and has a logo. It also has white shirts, which means that parents (quite understandably) get very cross with teachers if children get paint/charcoal etc on them, which means that I have to restrict their activities. Of course, good painting aprons would help.

Children are very strongly pressurized to have the sweatshirt with logo, school fleece, etc. Poorer children stand out in handed-down uniform which is tatty and frayed at the sleeves.

What is wrong with trainers?

I think that the majority of children wear unsuitable clothes on non-uniform days as a reaction to the uniform. It would be easy to have a list of acceptable clothes instead.

The only advantage I see is on school trips, but school sweatshirts could be provided just for trips.

Our primary is non-uniform. Well actually there is an optional uniform which is worn by perhaps 10% of children.

We had a vote recently and the parents and the children voted to keep non-uniform.

I know of no instances of competitive clothes wearing or of bullying related to clothing.

The playground is a rainbow weave of bright colours and is not a dull and soul-less sea of grey teflon and polyester. There are no "mini Britneys". There are usually a few HSM clothing items and a few football tops - neither of which offend me!

The kids are proud of their school and there are no particular discipline issues.

I think uniform is held up as a solution to many problems for which better solutions exist.

I find the sight of young children in uniforms to be frankly depressing. Why do we have to look the same?

The only parents I know whose kids clamour for clothing and labels are those at uniform schools - which backs up teafortwo's suggestion.

Wearing a uniform identifiable to a particular school - especially an expensive one - does mark you out as a target and there are a lot of fights started this way, so I can appreciate the safety issue.

This individualty thing is so much nonsense.Clothes do not make a child an individual, there personality does. A sunny out going bubbly child will be so whether she is in grey or skyblue pink.
I have worked as a school dinner lady, the uniform doesn't stop children acting like children rushing around and yelling and general being children, certainly not a souless sea of grey.

Christywhisty - I agree. The children at my children's school wear a very strict uniform, yet one of the school's great strengths is treating them as individuals within a larger community.

If white shirts are a problem, make sure the school uniform list includes a large apron. I can see from the state of my children's aprons that their uniforms have been spared all kinds of painty encounters!

Trainers are horrible, full stop. They look mucky and also create a different mind-set from 'proper' shoes. Trainers have their place, but their place is not the classroom. As for HSM branded clothes: even if I didn't agree with uniforms, I'd still want all logos banned. Again, they're fine for home if you like that kind of thing, but not for school. Horses for courses!

bonsoiranna - if oyur dd already wears a blue smock to go ou tot the park surely that makes her regonisbale as being part of that school the same way a logoed jumper would?

The children don't wear their smocks on the journey to and from school and they go to the park in them at times when there really aren't many other people. So the impact really isn't the same as a proper uniform would be. And only the tiny ones wear smocks - up to age 7.

Not for the first or last time on mn I am nodding and smiling at Racingsnake and Podrick's posts!!!

Anna - You certainly have an ally as milk will be starting said school in September [over excited emotion]!!!! We discovered in todays post. - thanks for all your help and advice!

FABULOUS NEWS!

as a teacher may I be allowed a truly massive GUFFAW at the idea that uniform makes the children look "smart".
hahahahahahahaha
grubby looking white shirts
ties all over the show
nasty shiny grubby blazers that get washed about once a year as far as I can see.
scuffed shoes
laddered tights
and TIES FOR GIRLS! they don't look smart, they look ridiculous.
imo

I like this thread...usually if I join these I seem to be in the minority against, or not for , uniforms

harpsichordcarrier - I was a good student at school and went to a successful ( not 'rough' at all) school. I was never in trouble even over uniform.... but when I think of the daft stuff I did to my jumper it begs belief.

We used to push our knees inside them to make them really baggy, push our thumbs through the sleeves and pull at loose threads so the bottom was all uneven. I had one big, big long skirt that looked daft and the other one was a belt and on-top of that I had purposely non styled hair. Admittedly grunge was in - but even then I am yet to see a French teenager going to school in their non-uniform looking at least half as bad as that - and I was one of the good ones....!!!

... I remember one boy (who is now a wonderful English teacher) burnt a massive hole in the stomach area of his jumper with a bunson (sp?) burner and continued to wear it all year!!!

.... I am rambling!!!!