At what stage should I consider moving DS down a year or taking him out of school? - Long and not very original or interesting I'm afraid.

[bran]

DS started in reception this year. I like the school and his teacher, but he's having problems that are getting worse. He won't be five until June, he is the youngest by 2 months, and in his class of 12 at least 7 children will have turned 5 by the end of November. He was at pre-school at the same school from January and took nearly half a term to settle there, but his unsettlement was mostly expressed as being quiet or miserable.

Now he's in reception his behaviour both in school and out is sometimes appalling. The best his teacher ever says when I pick him up is that he had an ok day but didn't listen, mostly I get to hear about the name-calling, hitting, kicking and how many time outs he's had. He's cheeky to the teacher and TA (he calls them poo-poo and stupid which fortunately is the worst that he knows). When I talk to him about his behaviour or discipline him he spits, kicks, bites and occasionally deliberately wets himself. Coming home from school today was a new low, involving spitting at passers-by and wetting himself. His teacher is getting a bit pissed off because he's teaching the other kids bad habbits.

The cause of the behaviour is a bit of a mystery and it's getting worse. His teacher implies that it's because DH works abroad during the week, DH thinks it's the school's fault (although he's never met DS's teacher) except for today when I spoke to him on the phone when he implied it was my fault. I think that DS is young for his age, very active and not at all academic and is simply not capable of sitting still and concentrating for such a long day (it's 9-4), although DH being away doesn't help at all. TBH I had my doubts about the whole system, but when you're in a foreign country you tend to go with the norm and the British people I know don't seem to have had any lasting damage done by starting school early.

When we were in Dublin for half term last week DS reverted back to his usual happy, chatty self, constantly on the go and doing things. He played beautifully with other kids like he used to. There were no tantrums or even much in the way of usage of the word "poo" except when he was tired just before bed. It made me realise just how much school has changed him for the worse, and how unhappy he seems most of the time. I suggested to his teacher that he should drop back to pre-school and she seemed outraged and implied that it would be very damaging for him, but I don't see how it could be worse than it is now.

How long should I wait before I make a decision about this? My instinct is to ask to meet the head of pre-school and his teacher this week but I think logically I should probably leave it to the end of term and see how it goes.

I'm quite proud of myself actually that I didn't call her a stupid bint at any stage of the conversation, even when (towards the end) she said that it didn't sound like a suitable environment for a child with DS's needs and she wondered why we'd ever decided to place him there.

So we are now investigating other schools, all the state schools in the area have waiting lists. Our local C of E school has 7 children on the list, DH thinks that we would be put at the top of the list as DS actually goes to church which is preferential.

We are going to visit a very small independent school tomorrow morning, but I worry that smaller might actually be worse for DS as it's likely to be quieter. But they are very flexible about times and he could do half days for at least the first two terms if we wanted. It's a bit of a commute to the other side of the river though.

There is a Steiner school in Greenwich where a neighbour's child goes. He loves it there and they don't start formal education for another couple of years so it would suit DS down to the ground. There is lots of outdoors activities in large gardens and he would have more choice over what he does during the day. But, while I think DS could be a Steiner poster child I'm not sure that we are Steiner parents. I do have some issues with the underlying philosophy and would find it hard to give up TV for instance. We would also be expected to do a lot of volunteering for the school (gardening/admin etc) which my workaholic DH won't/can't do.

I don't necessarily think that he won't be academic in the future, and TBH I don't really care either way so long as he's happy. He's definitely not academic now though, he hasn't yet moved on from the imagination stage to the process stage, so given a task to do like colouring in he would rather tell a story about the picture than concentrate on colouring inside the lines. So he can learn a lot by role play, and he can certainly absorb huge amounts of information, but he just doesn't want to sit and work on his pencil skills.

If he does turn out to be quite academic I can imagine him going down activity based areas, like marine biology or something that involves lots of muddy fieldwork. People can become more or less academic over time anyway. DH changed course several times at university and pretty much partied away his time there, and now he has an MBA and is halfway through a doctorate.

Smaller school may be okay because they may actually let him you know play rather than try and hot house him?

God Bran- what a total pill that head sounds. You handled it really well. I know I'm a bit of a state school bore but I honestly, honestly would look for a state school in your situation- there is a pretty much universal expectation thanks to the National Curriculum that foundation stage is about learning to settle into school and should include lots and lots of play. Plus it doesn't sound like ds would stand out much if at all in the lively running around stakes if I remember my boys's reception year correctly!

We're looking Scummy, but the state schools appear to be full with waiting lists. I don't think I handled it all that well TBH, I probably could have said and done something much earlier. But I think it would have boiled down to the same thing in the end anyway, what with their consitution being so set in stone. (Do other schools have constitutions that they can't break without 'disrupting the whole school'?)

CarGirl, the small school does sound lovely and my friend's son is very happy there, but they do have the phrase "academic excellence" on their website which fills my heart with dread at the moment.

I've really lost confidence in my ability to choose the right school for DS. I thought I'd got it right with this one but I was obviously so wrong, so how will I be able to recognise the right school when I see it?

Constitution indeed.

Hopefully a place will come up in a nice school soon. There might be some movement in waiting lists around Christmas time [hopeful]. Can you go and visit all the possibilities with your boy and see where he seems to settle best?

I think it's so easy to get it wrong, Bran. It's not your fault. I still feel guilty about leaving mine in a not good enough play group and remember finding it difficult to believe that a better alternative existed but the next one was great.

God what a nightmare for you.

Reception is supposed to be 20% work/80% play at the beginning and gradually transition to 80% work/20% play by the end of the year to get the children ready for Yr 1 which is a bit of a shock to their systems. (Of course it wouldn't be if they started Recp at 5 but that is another issue!)

I too would have said my DS wasn't academic at 4 when he was in reception. He was totally uninterested. In fact he was still pretty uninterested in Yr 1 - would do anything rather than sit and colour! Thankfully he had experienced teachers who let him go at his own pace.

Your DS's school are totally ignoring the fact that a just turned 4 year old is totally different from an almost 5 year old. Reception needs to be a particularly understanding and flexible year to take that into account.

Try not to blame yourself. You were happy with the pre-school. You were obv going to assume that your DS would be happy in Reception.

Good luck with the hunt for another school.

We went to see the little school today. DH came along too (miracles can happen ). They were so lovely that I burst into tears when I was talking about DS's old school.

DS was very reluctant to go at all, but once we were there he was pleased to see his friend in the class. We stayed in the classroom observing the class with him clinging on tight to our hands/legs/trousers for about 15 mins. The teacher seemed much more energetic than his old teacher, and definitely more cheerful. About half-way through storytime DS agreed to stay with the class while we went to the office, and he seemed to have enjoyed himself when the teacher dropped him back after the story and playtime.

I'll have to discuss it with DH and think it over a little. There is still potential for DS to be too loud for a small class, and the school as a whole is really tiny, there are only 8 in reception (to be 11 in January) and 4 in year 1. The school is a proper commute away (it took about 15 mins outside of the rush hour), and is likely to be moving by the end of this academic year and may be going further away.

Phew, bran - what a saga - I have just read the whole thread - well done on handling the school and the head with such aplomb, and good luck with whatever you decide to do next .

Thanks SSB, but any appearance of aplomb is entirely in the way I have written the story and not in the reality. I think in the same way as the victor gets to right the history, the history writer gets to claim the victory. In fact I was pre-menstrual, pink in the face and quite ranty. I have an Irish hot temper from my father's side that makes people back away nervously. A bit like the incredible hulk, I am only mildly irritable until I reach a tipping point and then I get furious. (Not very interesting aside, my surname used to be a slang word in some parts of the USA for an explosively hot-tempered and aggressive fist-fight. This was after my great-grandfather who had dreadful temper and made lots of money doing something that probably wasn't legal in the States before moving back to Ireland.)

I couldn't even write everything down without ranting until the next day, after an hour's kick boxing with my trainer. (No trainers were harmed during the working off of this anger.)

I'm sure if the Head were to come on here and give her version of events I would be transformed into an unreasonable, shouty, over-indulgent, over-anxious mother with extreme PFB syndrome. And she could possibly be right.

tee hee at Bran's last post.

Am racking brains as to what the surname could be...

Am racking brains as to what the surname could be...

It's not common usage now SSB, in fact when my Dad told me about it I took it with a pinch of salt, but I've actually heard it used in a film from the 1950s. Generally if there is a traditional cop type movie made before the 1990s there will be a hot-headed cop with this name in it somewhere. There is even a John Wayne movie with my surname as the title where he is a hot-headed cop who breaks rules. (It'll be on IMDB I should think.)

lingle

I'll have fun trying to figure this one out!

Maybe I should ask my dad...

Don't you know how to reasearch on the internet? Asking a rl person is sooooo last century.

IMDB

Can't do research tonight bran, will look tomorrow if I get a chance.

I dont think you need to move your son down, you just need him out of that horrible place school. It sounds as if the school just isnt right for him.

DS1s school in London was SOOOO not right for him. I have realized this now, after we moved, and he is thriving. Suddenly everything just "klicked together" when we got here.

Mildmannered - so your Year 1 is play-based too?
Let's hope this is part of a trend. So many kids at our school have struggled this term (Year 1).

Bran - you've mentioned Greenwich - have you considered Blackheath? Pointers and Heath House might both meet your needs?

Lingle - our year 1 is playbased, and is part of our early years unit. They all share an outside space as well.

I teach year 2 now, and we try and include as much play based provision as we can. If it can't be play based, then we try and make it game based and interactive e.g bingo and snap to practice reading etc. I've also got a lot of boys this year, so games are great for introducing the element of competition which is so vital for many boys.

Foundation stage should be lots of experience based learning and short sessions of sitting and listening (30 min max).

Talk to the school - perhaps help in class for a session to see how it runs.

Visit other schools to see how they operate. The school your son is attending may just not be the correct setting at this stage.

i would act in some way, you do not want your child to feel he is failing at such a young and impressionable age.