Draconian punishments year 1

[Mama2Tas]

Monday last week my daughter aged 5 "didnt have her listening ears on" so she was sent to stand in the coridoor (alone) but the deputy head happened to be there (doing her own work) when my daughter got there from being sent out of the hall where she was having PE. The main head then happened to walk passed and told my daughter off having identifed that she was in some sort of trouble hence standing in the coridoor. Quite understandable in my opinion you're being disruptive and not listening and thats not good behaviour, (except for the fact that it seems if the deputy head wasnt there then she would have been standing in the coridoor alone which doesnt seem safe at the age of 5 but I do understand that there was some sort of consequence to be had).

She was later taken to the classroom with all the other children where they got there coats and then went for playtime except my daughter who was made to stand against the wall for the entire playtime 15 minutes. She was after that at pick up made to stand and tell me everything that happened and she was looking down and embarrassed for sure.

I asked for a meeting the next day and the school teacher initially failed to tell the head the second part of the punishment she arranged for my daughter so the head had to go away again and ask her. She denied it was the entire play and states "it was only 5 minutes" which I did say I didnt think was necessary but wasnt able to call her a liar even though I had doubts because of her secrecy about it in the first place plus the fact she said to my daughter on pick up "if you do good listening then you dont have to get frustrated that you miss your play".

In between all this time i discovered another child was involved and spoke to his mum. She confirmed that whilst she had been called by the teacher to say he "didn't do good listening" she wasnt told about the wall punishment at all and she was equally upset. She asked her son (tactfully to describe what happened and he corroborates my daughters version of events plus another child who has been asked very casually by her mum to guage her response (so as not to sway her reply) confirmed it was the entire play and she wasnt allowed to play even for 1 minute.

This has raised two problems for me a) an issue of disproportionate disciplinary measures plus b) concerns that there are lies being told and cover ups from others etc.

Additionally out of nowhere Monday she wet herself at home in the kitchen and Tuesday, (which was the last day I let her attend) wet herself at school and was sent home in spare clothes. We haven't had such instances of weeing like this for ages and the last time she randomly started weeing was due to our house move so I conclude it was triggered by stress related to this incident.

When I had a meeting (ive had 2 so far the first was when the head hadn't been informed about the extended punishment and the second was after she spoke to the teacher who made her aware about the second part of the punishment and id also had new information from the witness confirming what she said about the 5 minutes not being true) the head teacher replied to me saying "I have a witness who corroborates my daughters story" by saying "I have several members of staff who corroborate my teachers version of events" which I interpret as her saying its your word against ours whilst also suggesting that 5 minutes against the wall was ok when I dont think the punishment should have been extended to the playground at all. I thought at that age it wasnt about punishing but guiding and positive reinforcements etc? Absolutely zero acknowledgement of it being wrong has taken place. They have asked me to attend a meeting Friday but even the last email states "all our staff have regular safeguarding updates" which I feel is still upholding the fact that they are all fully trained and free from error in this instance.

Ive pulled her out of this school but there is a waiting time for new placement and im panicking that taking her out is going to disrupt her further. Im genuinely feeling quite lost and upset. Am I doing the right thing? Please dont be horrible I feel extremely anxious as it is

To add she just turned 5 August 12th and one of the youngest in her year. In reception last school year I sent about 4 emails asking them to help me observe her behaviour because i felt she shown signs of ADHD. They didnt reply to a single communication but at the first sign of her not "having her listening ears on" in year 1 shes up against this level of punishment. It is an isolated incident as well because I suggested we consider a behavioural plan and the reply was "oh we wouldnt even think of that yet its only a one off" so why so serious im thinking ?

Move school!

Well this is shocking on so many levels! And for a 5 year old? Ridiculous. Completely inappropriate. I feel very sad for your little girl and I'm glad for her sake you've removed her. Can you look up the school's behaviour policy to see how they say they are meant to deal with things? Although not listening at 5 doesn't require 'punishment' ffs 🙄. But I think this needs following up, I'd be livid.
Jeez. Do ofsted get involved in this sort of thing?

I would 100% pull her from this school. I dont know where to begin with your post. Its all horrendous. Your poor little girl. More her asap and lodge complaints with school board of management. She is 5.

The first thing is to read the school policy documents. They should outline which disciplinary measures are taken for which breach. If the teacher has not followed policy you can then make a formal complaint on those grounds.

If the teacher did follow the policy, you can make a complaint about the policy itself being inappropriate.

It sounds as if your daughter was deprived of a full break time. This is a very serious sanction and is typically only applied in cases that have already been raised to the parents due to their seriousness.

This may or may not be the case at your school, although I suspect it is as the head is very keen to maintain that your daughter was only deprived of 5 minutes of break time as opposed to the full break time.

The policy documents will confirm these details for you, so get reading.

And on the meantime, start looking for a new school

I’m so sad to read this OP. Well done for removing your daughter and protecting her from the abhorrent behaviour.

This does sound over the top and distressing for a 5 yr old. I’m a secondary teacher, so it’s really not my field, but I’d be inclined to go to the governors if you are getting nowhere with the Head. The failure to respond to your communications re. potential SEND are enough for a grievance.
Yes, ask for a copy of the behaviour policy - there is no way that a 5 yr old being alone in a corridor is an official sanction! If you really want to follow up the playground issue, you could check whether there is CCTV footage of the playground - many schools have this.
The sudden wetting is potentially a sign of stress. Whatever happens next, make sure it’s kept away from your daughter.

That’s a bit much for a 5 year old! Surely a 5 min sit-out is enough. Missing all of playtime is overkill.

Your poor little girl. She must have been really scared.
Disgusting behavior by the school.

The teacher sounds ridiculous.How do they know she isn't listening?

You are absolutely right to pull her out of school, this is terrible treatment of such a little one. You also need to report this to ofsted as a matter of urgency

I think you are doing the right thing to move your dd, @Mama2Tas. I would say one thing - toileting accidents, even in children who are completely reliable, do happen when they start school - so it is possible the accident at school was simply a reaction to starting school, and might not mean she is stressed about the punishment.

I do think the punishment was completely OTT, and I do hope it hasn’t affected your dd as badly as you are worried it has.

This sounds like a ridiculous disproportionate punishment. She’s only 5 and a quick prompt or verbal reminder should have been all that was needed.
It’s not usual to send a 5 year old out of class and certainly not for something so minor and which is to be expected at that age. Sometimes young children have to sit and listen for too long in class.
Asa PP has said please check the behaviour policy which will be on the school website. Not listening is probably not even listed tbh.
So sorry that your daughter has been so upset.

This school sounds horrendous. Your little girl has just turned five what a horrible experience for her. Standing outside in a corridor on her own imo is not good safeguarding.
Her sudden episodes of wetting herself must be linked to the stress exerted by this teacher/school.
I would not want my child at this school it sounds very unkind and uncaring.

Sorry to hear this, Op. It’s awful of any five year old let alone one who is likely neurodivergent and will be so damaging to her self-esteem. Move schools she deserves better

You are doing the right thing by taking her out

Several points I would make
5 year old accounts are very unreliable.

She was given time out , the head teacher was there too so she wasn't alone

Standing against the wall for whole of break , I bet it was just a couple of minutes, it probably seemed like an eternity to her

You are right to find out what actually happened

Shocking that a teacher at a primary school should behave like that.
No one is ever sent out if the classroom at my grand children's classroom. It's not at appropriate at that age or safe. And children are never asked to face the wall either
Of course 5 years don't listen all the time. t's normal. They need to be helped to learn to concentrate but not like that.
What type of school is it and how experienced is the teacher?

This is not the school for her particularly if she has ADHD. The wetting is almost certainly anxiety related.

I'm shocked about the punishments for a child this age. I'm also cross on your behalf they have not responded when you have raised SEN concerns.

Is there a SENCO you can talk to?

I would look to move school as soon as you can. You have years and years of this to go and you need a better school than this.

Posted this in error was meant to be replying to someone but didnt know I had to hit the quote button

The teacher said it was 5 minutes. Also on pick up thatbdaythe teacher said "if you do good listening then you dont need to get frustrated that you missed your play" the teacher also told me "at first she wasn't bothered until she realised she wasnt going to get to play" two of the other children's accounts are aged 6 and even 5 minutes which has been admitted was enforced also seems a lot after she already was made to stand in the coridoor and the teacher sent her to the coridoor by herself the deputy just happened to be there which the teacher discovered when she went to collect her to take her back to the classroom so as far as the teacher was aware she was on her own.

I wouldn't be taking her back. I'd be talking to the other school to see how quickly they could get her in & what they use re reading & maths & in the mean time going those things with her as well as puzzles/games etc. if you aren't a SAHM. I'd be looking for a childminder/nanny if you don't have family who can help.

the only certainty would be her not going back!

I’m sorry OP. Wtf is the matter with some schools?

Very strange. If this was the punishment for not listening there’d be more children in the corridor than in the classroom, and nobody would get a playtime. Either it’s punishment for a pattern of repeated behaviour or something else is going on and you’re yet to get the truth.

This is shocking at 5 yrs old and only just turned 5.
I'd be absolutely furious at the teachers for this take it further.
Take her out of the school and make your complaint heard.
I'd ask for another safeguarding as their version of events is a lie.