Draconian punishments year 1

[Mama2Tas]

Monday last week my daughter aged 5 "didnt have her listening ears on" so she was sent to stand in the coridoor (alone) but the deputy head happened to be there (doing her own work) when my daughter got there from being sent out of the hall where she was having PE. The main head then happened to walk passed and told my daughter off having identifed that she was in some sort of trouble hence standing in the coridoor. Quite understandable in my opinion you're being disruptive and not listening and thats not good behaviour, (except for the fact that it seems if the deputy head wasnt there then she would have been standing in the coridoor alone which doesnt seem safe at the age of 5 but I do understand that there was some sort of consequence to be had).

She was later taken to the classroom with all the other children where they got there coats and then went for playtime except my daughter who was made to stand against the wall for the entire playtime 15 minutes. She was after that at pick up made to stand and tell me everything that happened and she was looking down and embarrassed for sure.

I asked for a meeting the next day and the school teacher initially failed to tell the head the second part of the punishment she arranged for my daughter so the head had to go away again and ask her. She denied it was the entire play and states "it was only 5 minutes" which I did say I didnt think was necessary but wasnt able to call her a liar even though I had doubts because of her secrecy about it in the first place plus the fact she said to my daughter on pick up "if you do good listening then you dont have to get frustrated that you miss your play".

In between all this time i discovered another child was involved and spoke to his mum. She confirmed that whilst she had been called by the teacher to say he "didn't do good listening" she wasnt told about the wall punishment at all and she was equally upset. She asked her son (tactfully to describe what happened and he corroborates my daughters version of events plus another child who has been asked very casually by her mum to guage her response (so as not to sway her reply) confirmed it was the entire play and she wasnt allowed to play even for 1 minute.

This has raised two problems for me a) an issue of disproportionate disciplinary measures plus b) concerns that there are lies being told and cover ups from others etc.

Additionally out of nowhere Monday she wet herself at home in the kitchen and Tuesday, (which was the last day I let her attend) wet herself at school and was sent home in spare clothes. We haven't had such instances of weeing like this for ages and the last time she randomly started weeing was due to our house move so I conclude it was triggered by stress related to this incident.

When I had a meeting (ive had 2 so far the first was when the head hadn't been informed about the extended punishment and the second was after she spoke to the teacher who made her aware about the second part of the punishment and id also had new information from the witness confirming what she said about the 5 minutes not being true) the head teacher replied to me saying "I have a witness who corroborates my daughters story" by saying "I have several members of staff who corroborate my teachers version of events" which I interpret as her saying its your word against ours whilst also suggesting that 5 minutes against the wall was ok when I dont think the punishment should have been extended to the playground at all. I thought at that age it wasnt about punishing but guiding and positive reinforcements etc? Absolutely zero acknowledgement of it being wrong has taken place. They have asked me to attend a meeting Friday but even the last email states "all our staff have regular safeguarding updates" which I feel is still upholding the fact that they are all fully trained and free from error in this instance.

Ive pulled her out of this school but there is a waiting time for new placement and im panicking that taking her out is going to disrupt her further. Im genuinely feeling quite lost and upset. Am I doing the right thing? Please dont be horrible I feel extremely anxious as it is

Teachers do (sometimes) lie and cover for each other. Timeout for a 5 year old two weeks in to her first term is ridiculous.

Why is it ridiculous?

Do you really believe kids can do whatever the hell they want in the first half term without consequence?

This was in PE. The teacher could have asked her to just sit to come and stand by her for a moment. Or waited until she was listening, or told her to have a look round and see what everyone else was doing or asked her what she thought she out to be doing or any number of more constructive actions that would get her to listen without excluding her.

I was sent to stand outside the door in my first year at school in 1985/6. Still remember the burning shame.

She was twirling on the floor. The teacher said it was dangerous because she couldn't concentrate on the class as a result of the twirling. Im all for consequences but just feel at this age it should be more positive rather than shaming since its probably her attention span as opposed to defiance if you see what I mean.

Im actually thought of doing this but wasnt sure if I could be done for it or something.

The lesson was PE as well. She was twirling on her bottom. The teacher said it was dangerous as she was distracted. Fair enough but the consequence out of the room was already had. I cant understand why she then continued it after everyone got changed from PE and moved to a new environment on the playground where she made her stay for 15 minutes more (though she says it was only 5 minutes i dont believe her because all 3 children who were asked tactfully by their mums would understand to all lie).

I can hardly believe what I’m reading! Standing against a wall for 15 minutes?!
I’m all for rules but that’s seriously out of order.

Dont you come on my post implying that im missing any part of this story. I came here with the absolute facts.

Child: "I had to stand in the coridoor promt from teacher because i didn't have my listening ears on prompt from teacher I wasnt allowed to play"

Teacher: "if you do good listening then you dont have to get frustrated that you miss your play and miss doesnt have to get frustrated with you"

Further to add ive since had two meetings and the teacher has told me word for word what happened. She states that my daughter was "twirling on the floor during the PE lesson and wouldn't stop when asked so a consequence was provided".

Further to add i have absolutely no issue with fair consequences AT ALL.
I also reported to them in 4 unanswered emails last year that I suspect she has ADHD because she struggles to pay attention in what seems to me to be more than the average person. If they would have worked with me then it could have been handed over to her new year 1 teacher and she could have understood we have a potential disability here. Not that it would be ok to make any child stand outside PLUS stand against a wall for 15 minutes purely because of not listening when being asked to stop twirling on the floor aged 5 and only just turned 5 a few weeks before!

Actually quite the opposite and have all the mental scars to prove it. Part of the reason I dont want my daughter exposed to such negativity.

I dont even believe they can do whatever they want without consequence. But consequences should be proportionate and this was very far from that.

The teacher didn't know she was there. The teacher sent her out on her own the teacher discovered the deputy head was there when she went to collect her. She told me that it was pure coincidence. Which means she sent her with the idea she was on her own. And then after that it was 15 minutes on the playground ASWELL AS THAT!!

What is the schools behaviour and escalation policy? Ask for a copy of this and review if you believe the school followed the specified protocol. If the school didn’t follow its own behaviour/escalation policy, you have cause for complaint. Is this a Catholic school by any chance? At our prep you don’t go into timeout unless you have hurt another child, even then, this isn’t facing a wall - it’s a room. First telling off is by any teacher who catches them, 2nd is by head of prep, 3rd is the headteacher or deputy. I would look at other schools too, some children don’t fit into a particular school’s, so hard.

The teacher does not sound well balanced in her approach, you did the right thing by pulling her out. This kind of overly strict behaviour policy can not only affect the kids being punished but the rest of the kids in the class. Shame is a dreadful thing to use against anyone never mind a 5 year old. A school that does not understand that is not a healthy environment for your dd.

No. None of this is appropriate for a five year old. Not the first punishment and no variation of the second.

If you’re actually correct in your minimising of things OP has already had corroboration of, then it seems as though you think that the second punishment was also reasonable? Interesting.

Do you have any idea how creepy you sound?

Dont pull her out, work with the teachers/the school. It is very often possible to turn tbings around in a respectful way
you may want to pull her out if this type of punishment carries on for a much longer time and after having had a lot more meetings.
she is only in reception. She will - unfortunately- be exposed to a lot of unfairness in the year to come and you wont be able to pull her out of every situation

also you need to give her the opportunity to tepair and be a good listener. How catastrophic is it in a 5 yrs old mind to have been a little bit naughty and to get mum so upset she is no longer allowed to go to school. Thats a great way to make her very anxious.

I wouldn’t have sent a child out of the hall but if she was twirling and didn’t stop when she was asked to, I’d have made her stand by me for a few minutes to give her time to reflect and regulate herself.
I’m not sure why she then also missed playtime, unless she’d been messing around again between PE and playtime and this was a separate consequence to her actions. Even then, it shouldn’t have been for 15 minutes imo.
I do think posters on here are getting a bit ahead of themselves though. Go to the papers? Really?
If you don’t feel as if the school is a good fit then obviously move your child. Out of interest, were there any behavioural issues flagged up by the school when she was in reception?

To those dismissing the Wall facing and saying it’s not that bad… I still remember being in primary school in the 80s and two boys were made to stand facing the brick wall of the building while we all played. The deputy head stood between them so no one could talk to them. It’s a really stark memory, they must have felt awful. They were only 7/8 and as a child I thought that was horrible. Not just the wall facing, but the public humiliation.

All to say, even in the 80s it was unusual and not common. I thought we’d moved on. I am governor for a local primary and almost all the behaviour correction is positive redirection. Missing things is for the worst behaviour and safety concerns, and not done in a way to humiliate.

She wont have been wall-facing, sbe will have been told to stand against the wall, facing outwards looking at tne children not the wall. This is done in thousands of schools, it is not a cruel and unusual punishment. OFSTED will not be remotely interested. Not least because the internal complaints process has not been exhausted. Any teacher would know this.

Absolutely zero behavioural flags. If anything the other way, I was trying to ask them to help me to monitor her behaviour and they ignored 4 communications that I made asking for their help to observe her behaviour as at home it appeared she was struggling with self regulation etc and we suspected asd/adhd. Then 2 weeks into year 1 and boom this is what happened.

How do you know the internal complaints process hasnt been exhausted?