School is making it worse

[Sadmummlaugh]

I hope someone can help me. My son 8 started a new school a few months ago. He can be tough to deal with but we assume it's no different to other 8 yo. Unfortunately the school before He started already labled him as a problem child. My son is not violent, agressive and mostly very polite. He gets along well with everyone and has loads of friends. He just needs help with following instructions on the spot. He is trying so so hard to do well but he just emotionally he cant. They allocated an a support person who follows him around everywhere. They r with him all day everyday. It's never the same person. The school gives us some BS about they r there to keep him safe and to be his advocate. I've seen with my own eyes that they r watching him like a hawk. They hover over him, they r telling him what to do all the time do this don't do that... they never give him an opportunity. From what I've seen and heard they just want to control his behaviour. It's literally like jail for the poor kid. Things looked like it was improving and now his behaviour at school has spiked so much and I don't know what to do. At home he's different too. He's can't stop moving about, he's increased self soothing like chewing nails, rocking, spinning and getting frustrated really easily to the point where he is bending backwards and pushing the ground. I've never ever seen him do that before. I believe the excessive limitations is causing a change in him and not in a good way. I have spoken to the school every week and they just keep escalating their discipline which then makes his behaviour worse. Even the after school carers r noticing a difference .
I would love some advice on what I can do to help mu son at school. I obviously can't be there but besides trying to talk some sense to the school I'm stumped. Please any advice.
Thx, Worried mum

Ok.

So to summarise:at his previous school he was happy (ish)

There were behavioural issues not all of which were shared with you

At some point he has had assessments done which have suggested adhd

He mostly refuses to comply in the classroom and won't do work

At the new school he had a 1:1 from the first day. His behaviour was initially good (for him) but has been deteriorating.

He now runs and hides in school

You don't like:
The fact the 1:1 isn't the same person
The fact that the 1:1 is with him at breaks and lunch.

The SEN system in England is very complicated and it does sound a bit like you have got lost in it.

In order to get a diagnosis of either ASD or ADHD you need to go via a GP for referral and waits are long. School assessments can suggest or point to adhd or ASD but cannot diagnose. Given your son's behaviour I would strongly advise you to seek a referral from your GP for assessment for both ASD and AdHd.

Schools are expected to and do provide support without a diagnosis (not least because diagnoses take so long). His previous school has obviously taken advice on his behaviour and what might be behind it in order to help him in school,

They don't have to (and didn't) share every incident with you.

At the new school, there are a number of ways to fund support for children with SEN. The long term secure way is with an EHCP. Do you know if the school have applied for an EHCP?

In most schools, because the EHCP process is so slow, there will be a pot of additional money they can apply for from the council to cover the costs of the support while waiting for an EHCP. Used to be called emergency transitional funding or similar.

Again, school don't have to tell you where the funding for his 1:1 is coming from - some schools will fund it themselves out of budget. They should tell you when/if he gets the EHCP though.

Once funding is secured, it is considered best practice for the child to meet the 1:1 and it is also considered best practice for the job to split between at least two people. This means that the child can build a relationship with both people and the situation where he has built a relationship with Mrs X and then she goes off sick and he is extremely distressed doesn't happen.

However, at the moment most schools are really struggling to recruit TAs (largely because you get better pay on the checkout at Asda and nobody assaults you there) so there are children who have funded 1:1s who do not have a TA because the money is there but the school can't get anyone to apply.

Your child has a 1:1. It isn't ideal that the person who it is is changing but that may well be the best the school can do. You can say to the school that you would prefer it to be a regular group of two or three people but if they don't have anyone specifically for the job then there is very little you or the school can do.

When you say that the 1:1 is always there - this is known in the education world as a Velcro ta. It's not best practice, as ideally the 1:1 is able to help your child develop some independence.

Again, you can speak to the school and ask for the 1:1 to give him a bit more space, especially at break and lunch.

However be aware that this is a request, and if school feel he needs someone right next to him for safety reasons (eg he is a runner and they are worried he will jump the playground fence and get out into traffic) they don't have to listen to your request.

Their job is to keep him safe in school and ideally make sure he learns something. If you ask for things that mean he isn't safe they will say no.

I'm sorry - I realised afterwards that I'd misread that.

It sounds as though your DS's attitude towards school is very positive, which is a big bonus. If his sensory/ movement needs are ADHD then I have known many children respond amazingly to medication. If your GP can help quickly on that score then his desire to work and do well will have a chance to flourish.

Minor issues? Not sitting down, not doing work, not doing what he needs to be doing are all incredibly disruptive for the staff and the rest of the children.
Your focus is understandably on your child but the teacher has to support your child and 29 other children. Having a 1:1 means he cannot access school without support. You're saying they need to back off but how else can they manage him and ensure 29 other children get their work done?

The fact you think he's like a typical 8 year old is telling and suggests you are unaware of just how much he is struggling.

At my school we tend to switch out 1:1s if the child is particularly challenging- it’s often too much for one TA to cope with for a whole morning or afternoon and they need a break/change.
We find TAs leave pretty quickly unless rotated/given a break or change during the day. It can be a very difficult job.
It’s also good that the child has a few 1:1s so that if one TA is ill the others know the child and their routine.
We find there is less TA absence of they are rotated rather than 1:1 constantly.
Sometimes a change of face can de-escalate a difficult behavioural situation so one TA is asked to go and “Take a phone call in the office,” and another TA will take over.

Imagine labelling one-to-one provision "abuse". 🙄

Schools do not provide that level of support unless there are serious issues. What you describe as less serious things do have a massive impact on the teaching abd learning in the class. Not following instructions and running off are big issues. If they are supervising him in the playground I suspect other children or parents have complained about how he is behaving around their kids. You seem to have an odd view of him. He clearly isn't like other 8 year olds. No school would be giving that amount of supervision for low level issues.

Look, not wanting to rub it in, but it does sound like he has significant needs which means for his/others' safety he needs to have a 1-2-1.

Put it this way, one of dd's friends, whose behaviour sounds similar, was turned down twice for a 1-2-1 before eventually they managed to get a senior ed psych to watch her - they lasted less than 15 minutes before they said they were recommending 1-2-1 full time.
Lovely, lovely girl, but really needed that 1-2-1.

She did really well with the 1-2-1 at infants, and went to a mainstream juniors with SEN attachment, and then a great SEN school at secondary. She's done very well and is working, with a carer's help.

But she would not have achieved that without a 1-2-1. She'd have been that naughty child in the corner, with the other children keeping away because they don't know what she'll do next. She would have done almost nothing workwise, and, at times, so would the rest of the class while the teacher helped her.
The having the 1-2-1 allowed her to make friends, to do some work, calm herself outside the classroom when needed, while the rest of the class did the work they needed to do too.
Yes, she didn't always appreciate that, yes, she sometimes wished she didn't have the 1-2-1 with her. But that's because she didn't see all they did for her, and how they protected her from her own actions.

OP, I teach someone exactly like your son, and he is not like 'any other 8 year old.' Saying no to adults, and not doing work is NOT like most 8 year olds in mainstream school. I've been teaching for 15 years, and the vast majority of children in mainstream don't do this. I currently teach Y3, so am familiar with 7 and 8 year olds.
Clearly, your son has an additional need, possibly ADD, ADHD or Autism. The fact the school are providing 1:1 support without an EHCP is a miracle in itself, but as you say, someone different every day really isn't ideal.

You need to do the following:

Speak to the SENCO and enquire re an EHCP and Ed psych assessment.

Speak to the teacher in person and get his/her honest point of view. You also need to inform the teacher about you worries re different people being your son's 1:1.

Enquire about any support available at school such as ELSA (emotional support), play therapy etc.

I know it is incredibly hard to accept that your child is struggling and isn't like other children (my youngest has potential ASD, so I know how this feels), but it is REALLY important that you acknowledge that they are NOT like other children their age. Thinking this is absolutely not helpful to them, or you.

Thank you for your responses. There have been some very helpful ones.

Also thank you to those of you who posted without judgement. I was wary of posting on a forum like this because there r unfortunately very judgemental and nasty ppl (which a couple has decided to join).

Teachers are polite. They have to be. They're giving you a watered down version. You think your child is just like every other 8 yr old. You only know one - yours. They know literally hundreds. Your child is an absolute pain in the arse and they're genuinely concerned he's about to throw a chair or injure another child. It's virtually impossible to get a 1-1 even with multiple diagnoses and and ECHP so there's no chance your child is a 'mild' behaviour wise as you think he is. You're in denial. Could be additional needs, could be he's just a little shit. Could be both. ADHD or ASD is not a green light for poor behaviour. You need to take your rose tint glasses off and get onboard with the school about all this asap.

To u and other posters who have responded with Ur kid isn't like others, u have to stop denying and I need to work with the school uve clearly not been following my responses to other helpful posters.

He isn't like others, I have been working my ass off with the school. The frustrating thing is I have done everything the school has asked and they have been supportive. What I'm asking for is one part of the support to be loosened and it's the part he has very little difficulty in. The school themselves has said so. It's just the classroom.

It's unfair to judge someone on a forum like this because there's years of background u don't know and u don't know me so what's helpful is just what r my options and actions like go to senco or sharing Ur experience that's similar that might help me understand the school system.

But you started your post saying he's like any other 8 year old? And that his transgressions are minor.

I guess it's unrealistic of me to expect ppl to always read the thread.

Nevertheless to say a kid is a little shit is not exactly helpful do u think? There's always going to be a reason why a kid is a "little shit"

@Sadmummlaugh but you did start your post by saying you didn’t think he was any different to any other 8yo

Try the SEN boards @Sadmummlaugh because for some reason there is a cohort on Mumsnet who treat everywhere else like AIBU, and who don't really believe that ASD or ADHD exist - therefore children like yours (and mine) must be little shits.

I think you need a real come-to-Jesus talk with the SENCO. The 1:1 they have put in place isn't working and that might be because the 1:1 is the wrong person for him or it might be that the whole structure of the school isn't right for him. Some TAs become very used to working with one type of behaviour so if you have someone who has been used to working with a child who kicks off in the playground and hasn't adapted their style for your child, that could potentially be resolved with a chat.

You need to ask for

• his current small steps or other SEN plan, which should show what is already in place so that you can show the school has funded what they can from their own budget and it hasn't worked
• an EHC needs assessment - this should unlock an educational psychologist assessment and possibly also speech and language and occupational therapy
• leading to an EHC Plan (EHCP) outlining what additional support he needs and making it legally required

He may need a different setting. It sounds like he has some significant sensory needs and he may be bolting because the school is just overwhelming, but he will need an ed psych and OT assessment to find out.

Good luck.

I had a child very much like this in a year 3 class. They only had a TA for an hour a day. The Ed Psych observed and said afterwards that I was spending 60% of my lesson on just this child to keep him as focussed as possible so not to disrupt the class with him either shouting or running …. How fair is this to the other 29 or so and how does it impact on their learning? This school sounds excellent if he has a 1:1 without an EHCP.

Schools don’t fund full time 1:1, including breaks and lunchtimes, unless they have significant concerns, including concerns about breaks and lunchtimes.

Without it being detailed in an EHCP, it may not be possible for them to provide the same person all the time.

If by waiting for funding you mean waiting for an EHCP, where are you in the process? What week are you on and is the LA sticking to the timescales? If you don’t mean an EHCP, but rather just high needs top up funding, you should request an EHCNA.

I’m very late to this and have nothing useful to add about EHCP’s etc but I can’t help feeling that OP has been given a very hard time for initially describing her son as being like any other 8 year old and thereby not accepting that he has issues. We are on page 6 of the thread now and it’s blatantly obvious to me that she is well aware that he needs support in certain areas. Nothing she’s said has led me to believe that his behaviour in the classroom and the playground is so bad that he really needs constant support, but school obviously does and I think she has to be very grateful that they are providing it for him, even though it may not be with the same person all the time
The assumption made by some that the little boy has no friends and doesn’t get invited to parties almost beggars belief. Seemingly there are a lot of people who automatically think the worst about everyone, but why anyone should jump to the conclusion that he is Billy No Mates simply on the basis that he is receiving 1 on 1 support seems unnecessarily cruel.
If I was the OP his inability to sit still and focus wouldn’t worry me quite so much as the fact that he is refusing to do work when asked. I’d definitely be wondering why and asking how he compares academically to his peers. Sometimes children who find certain things difficult realise that they can’t do what others can and don’t want to take the risk of being laughed at by their friends. Conversely of course he could find what he’s being asked to do boring.
By way of example my own little one is being assessed for dyspraxia and it broke my heart when he recognised from the cards friends had recently written for his birthday that their writing was so much better than his. It made me realise that this was the reason that he never wanted to sit and crayon with his younger siblings or have a hot dinner at school in case he was made fun of for being a messy eater. School is well aware of his difficulties and go above and beyond with encouragement and support with his writing but I’m sure it would only take one of his friends to make fun of him in the classroom for him to be not be so willing to keep trying.
Another thing that would worry me if I was the OP is the changed behaviour at home and I’d definitely be raising this as a concern when discussing whether constant supervision in the playground was absolutely necessary. Based on what she’s said this does seem over the top, and he obviously hates it as he likened it to being in jail, but I have to agree that school wouldn’t be providing it if they didn’t think it was needed.
In a sense I suppose that it is down to the OP’s son to prove that he doesn’t need to be constantly watched and I’d be asking why they think he does, what he needs to do to show them that he’s capable of behaving appropriately and what I could do at home to help him behave as they expect

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OP, how do you know your son is being followed constantly? You say you've seen it, but surely you only see them in the playground at drop-off and pick-up time?