School is making it worse

[Sadmummlaugh]

I hope someone can help me. My son 8 started a new school a few months ago. He can be tough to deal with but we assume it's no different to other 8 yo. Unfortunately the school before He started already labled him as a problem child. My son is not violent, agressive and mostly very polite. He gets along well with everyone and has loads of friends. He just needs help with following instructions on the spot. He is trying so so hard to do well but he just emotionally he cant. They allocated an a support person who follows him around everywhere. They r with him all day everyday. It's never the same person. The school gives us some BS about they r there to keep him safe and to be his advocate. I've seen with my own eyes that they r watching him like a hawk. They hover over him, they r telling him what to do all the time do this don't do that... they never give him an opportunity. From what I've seen and heard they just want to control his behaviour. It's literally like jail for the poor kid. Things looked like it was improving and now his behaviour at school has spiked so much and I don't know what to do. At home he's different too. He's can't stop moving about, he's increased self soothing like chewing nails, rocking, spinning and getting frustrated really easily to the point where he is bending backwards and pushing the ground. I've never ever seen him do that before. I believe the excessive limitations is causing a change in him and not in a good way. I have spoken to the school every week and they just keep escalating their discipline which then makes his behaviour worse. Even the after school carers r noticing a difference .
I would love some advice on what I can do to help mu son at school. I obviously can't be there but besides trying to talk some sense to the school I'm stumped. Please any advice.
Thx, Worried mum

It makes little sense what you’re saying. There is absolutely no way a school would arrange for a 1:1 when there isn’t even funding in place unless it was deemed strictly necessary. You said they wrote him off straight away and suggested 1:1 - on what basis was that? Was that from information provided by his previous school?

Then you suggest that he was actually pretty well behaved in the first few weeks and that the situation has changed quite recently wrt the behaviour at the after school club. But it also sounded like he’d had the 1:1 from the start. You also mentioned minor and big issues that had happened as well as him trying to run away.

Are you now saying that he might not even need a 1:1 as apparently he’s better in the classroom and you don’t want him to have one in the playground?

And if your child is as popular with his classmates as you describe it doesn’t seem to be holding him back socially really does it?

Not following instructions and refusing to do what he is asked is not close to normal 8yo behaviour. My dd is 8 and in y4 and our parents WhatsApp group has a few parents who seem to have no idea what is normal or expected for this age (for example sharing screenshots of reception level reading books and saying how could the school expect an 8yo to be able to read something so hard) - not sure how this happened, some parents seem to have very low expectations or have their heads in the sand.

OP a normal 8yo in school will be compliant, able to complete school work largely independently, will get on with friends without the need for regular intervention and will do what they are told when they are told to do it. It isn’t prison, it’s basic understanding of when it’s appropriate to push boundaries and when it isn’t. It’s totally normal to sometimes be not compliant at home at this age, however. All children will have their moments but refusing to do what they are told at school is very unusual.

Why are they thinking ADHD? Everything you say is surely pointing to ASD - rocking, spinning, stickler for rules and routine, easily overwhelmed and wanting to run and hide.

Saying no to everything may be suggesting a PDA profile, this is based on really high anxiety levels. It might however just be that he's not interested in doing things he's not interested in! My son with ASD was the same, at nursery when they asked him to do things that he needed to do he'd say 'no thank you' if he wasn't interested.

You are correct that the 121 shouldn't be hovering and crowding him in the playground if there are no concerns about violence. Are they worried he might try to escape? Why do they think he needs 121 in the playground? I would talk to them about that and just find out the thinking behind it.

He would also be much better off if he consistently had the same person or just switched between 2 people because that will be much easier for him especially if he does have ASD. He needs someone he can build a relationship with. However if they don't have the funding in place yet I guess they may have to put in whoever they can to be with him.

Have you spoken to the SENCO at school? They should have a bit more understanding of SEN - but aren't always great at primary school, especially around ASD IME. My DS had someone in from SENDIASS to observe him and they were brilliant, the school arranged it and they gave them lots of ideas of what could help him and suggested he might have ASD, their report also helped when he was assessed by the NHS. So that might be helpful.

You might also be better off putting this on the board for ND kids.

Here is a school spending a considerable amount of money, which they can probably ill afford to allocate from a very stretched budget, on providing 1-1 support for a child who needs it (and whose parents requested it). They won’t be doing that unless they think he really needs it. And you call it "abuse". How ridiculous.
You rightly want the child to make new friends, yet encourage the OP to remove him from school. That makes no sense.
Encouraging this adversarial relationship with the school won’t help the OP at all. She needs to have a meeting with the SENDCO to discuss why the school feel the close support is necessary, and explain her point of view. If the playtime supervision is unnecessary I’m sure the school would be delighted not to have to provide it.

Ask to see the plan the school have for your son @Sadmummlaugh You need a meeting with the SENDCo

You sound very aggressive. OP has already asked you to leave the thread. Now you are calling her a liar.

Thank you that's very helpful. Interesting on the PDA and ASD. Not had that come up from schools psyc assessment.

But that’s not being violent and needing someone watching him like an hawk.

It doesn’t mean that whatever they are doing is doing it right, aka in the best interest of the child.

You just have to look at how much parents have to fight to get the right sort of support in place.

@Tina159 has it right imo.
They should t be hoovering over him at play time.
They should have the same person involved all the time
And they should have a clear plan decided with the parents that will stick to. Incl taking into account the fa t that what they ate doing are maki g things worse for the child, increasing anxiety and destroying his self esteem. For a child that might be disruptive but is NOT violent.

That’s why I said "She needs to have a meeting with the SENDCO to discuss why the school feel the close support is necessary, and explain her point of view."
Yes, ideally the child should have the same person with him all the time - but TAs need breaks too. It's also very likely that the school don’t have a spare suitable person. From personal experience I know how hard it can be to recruit suitably experienced TAs for this type of role, even if the school had enough money to pay one.

Something is not quite right here - I have never known a school to use valuable resources to follow one child around without an ECHP. Do you think his last school sent a reference and this said he or others were at risk? I have adhd, my son and daughter have adhd… this comment of your’s jumped out “He can be tough to deal with but we assume it's no different to other 8 year old”. … I am sorry but I think it’s out of the ordinary for 8 year olds to be tough to deal with. I hope you get to the bottom of things x

Hence my confusion. I was waiting for the funding (still waiting btw) and then on day 1 without a heads up the support person was there. Don't know where they got the money from. I asked the school to give me a heads up when funding comes through and someone is allocated so he can meet them and talk to him. Before he started the new school i had arranged for him to meet his teacher and his new classmate before his first day so he was prepared. But we didn't know he was allocated support on his first day and wasn't told about it until we turned up so I was confused and he was confused. I work so hard to make sure I can help the school navigate his behaviours and I also make sure I back up the school by talking to him at home about what happened at school. But we just don't get a consistent message.

Socially no but I'm sure when he gets older others may find him annoying.

Unfortunately they don't have a written plan. That's what we're asking for now

Of course. Like any job u need a break. What I'm asking is some consistency. He has a new one every week. At the beginning he had the same person every day and now every day is different and changes every week.

At home his behaviour seems to alighn with my friends and families children. But after finally getting information from his previous schools about his behaviour (which they only gave me because I asked for the list and out of those I was only made aware of a handful of incidences). Untill then I was only made aware of the not following instructions and lack of focus. When they gave me the list I was shocked and asked why they never told me about them and they looked confused. Unless I had amnesia I'm sure I would have remembered if they had told me. So my faith in the schools telling me things is pretty low. That's why I'm working overtime with the school. I feel bad because I know she has other kids to teach but I obviously have my son's interest and I will do anything to help my son. He so wants to learn and play. Hen hea at home and we have deep talks about how hes feeling about achool, the teachers. The sad thing is He's so aware he needs help in the classroom and he's happy to have it its just he can't control his behaviour. There is a big sensory element to it too and so he brings fidgets and chew toys to school. They school has other sensory aids which does help.
I had to ask the school what support can we apply for and only until then they offered to apply for school funding for extra support and aids just for him.

Waiting for EHCP funding or a different kind of short-term funding? Where I am only schools can apply for the latter and it's non-transferable from school to school.

If yiu child is on the SEND register they should have individual targets that should be shared (indeed written with) you. You should be invited into school three times a year at a minimum.

Unfortunately, the jail quote came from him

It sounds like both you and the school are doing everything they can for him but it isn’t perfect.

You say he’s not struggling socially and so I’d be tempted to leave it as it is for now.

But if you truly think he would benefit from having less support at break times, then I would suggest this.

You are his mum and of course you know him best but the staff may had experience with kids like him before and so they’re just trying what had worked in the past.

They also have to keep him safe and the other kids safe.
This doesn’t mean he’s violent but it may mean that he cannot spot danger and if he struggles to follow rules on top, then this can result in him or someone else getting hurt.

My main priority would be pushing for an EHCP which would allow him to go to a special school, where staff to pupil ratios are much lower and although they are watched constantly, it’s done in a way where it is normal because they all are.
They are also set up to have kids like your son where there’s less chance to escape or hurt themselves etc.

Home schooling is not an option. I have to work to pay bills.

He still loves going to school. Not one day he refuses and every morning he packs his bag does his chores and leave the house. Mornings are calm.

Medicate him for his adhd and things will change for him. The school sounds like they can give good pastoral support for his autism, things will settle.

Schools don't give 121 support like that for no reason. Embrace everything given at school. If he doesn't need that level of support at home that's great but the reality is that he does at school and the quicker you get on board with that, the better.

None. The issues raised in the classroom but they want to reduce it there. Which makes no sense

I'm always going to defend my son but I'm also practical. On these forums I can only give such a small amount of detail because as u can see its very complex and a very crucial period of his life and I want him to have support but the right support. I can't be there at the school and seeing my son's personality change since coming to this school is heart breaking. I'm not getting enough information from the school hence coming to this forum hoping for some one with the same experience with the school can help. I have literally signed up to everything they give us.