Harsh punishment at primary school complaint

[Kasiapol28]

Hi there, sorry for the long thread...

I am after some advice on how to proceed with the school. My son ( 11 yo, year 6 ) is a bright boy and does well at school, even passing the grammar test for a local school. He has had 2 parents meeting so far this year and at everyone his teacher has praised him on behaviour and his work. No issues mentioned.

His heart is in sport, he plays football out of school and and this year he was chosen to be a sports ambassador at the school ( along with 60 others ) which meant he was able to to go to football tournaments, athletics..e.t.c .

Although the selection for teams is meant to be fair for everyone, the same 6 boys always get chosen and then the spares picked from the rest of the kids. These 6 boys are very close friends with my son.

However since January the school have been excluding him from certain sports events due to 'behaviour issues'.

On both occasions the school did not even bother to contact me to tell me that my son had been excluded from the events and at no point did they contact me to tell me they were having concerns with his behaviour. So obviously I was very taken aback by this. How can I work with him on his so called ' low disruption behaviour' as they called it , if I don't even know it is happening.

I wrote to the headteacher as I felt this was a very harsh punishment, to which he even replied that although he felt my child's behaviour was not extreme he was not following the school values and so the punishment stayed.

The reason he was not allowed to attend the latest event was because he was not tucking his shirt in, had not worn a tie on one occasion, and was causing ' low Distribution in class' year leaders words.

The issue is that they chose to announce who was going to the event on Monday of SATS week and the event was happening on that Friday which was also meant to be a celebration day at the school for finishing SATS with bouncy castles and all sorts. This caused a lot of necessary stress during what is a hard time for him during SATS week.

When my son heard the news that he was not picked and his group of friends were going to the event he was heartbroken. It has effected him all week and he has been in tears and feels left out and will not have anyone to share the celebrations with. I have not sent him into school today as he was so upset last night, seeing him in tears like that broke my heart, he is a good boy, doesn't swear at teachers or hurt kids, I just feel heartbroken for him.

Is it just me or does that seem rather extreme punishment ? Surely missing some lunch/ play or even a phone call to me so I could help him work at it would have been enough for this type of behaviour ?

Is he able to explain why he’s behaving this way? I presume you’ve asked him?

Oh I see sorry,

What I was hoping is that they would have called me to tell me there has been a change in his behaviour, there is a game coming next week and if he does not fix his behaviour he will not be going.

Then i would have had the conversation with him to let him know his behaviour was not acceptable and if he didnt sort this out he would loose out. Then it would be his decision to make. Sort yourself out or don't go and live with the consequence.

His behaviour has been great since Monday so I know he will get through it and be amazing at secondary school
😬
Unlikely, unless you address it properly now.

I don't know why you've bothered posting this OP. The majority are saying the punishment was correct and the school didn't need to contact you. But you keep disagreeing. Did you think everyone was going to sympathise?

Your son has not been punished, he has not been given an opportunity he expected to have because of his behaviour. He is naturally upset and disappointed. His reaction is extreme because he knows he could have done better. This is a life lesson. There will be many disappointments in life, this is a chance to learn how to deal with that.

Had he been chosen, despite poor behaviour, another child would have missed the opportunity. Im sure there are lots of disappointed children in that class.

Hello,

Actually a few people did sympathise, but I wrote it as I was interested in other peoples opinions which has been very interesting. It has also shown me what I can expect to hear from the school when we have our meeting so It has helped me in that way. I hope that answers your question. Have a great day

Thank you, I think that is still a punishment/ consequence technically as they specifically said the reason he wasn't chosen was because of his behaviour. I just felt that it would have been fairer if he had been given a warning, it was too harsh. If he had been given a warning and still misbehaved the consequence would have been fair, but I respect your opinion and I am happy for the child that did take his place.

How do you know he wasn't continually warned by the teacher and just ignored them, thinking it wouldnt happen.

He didn't know anything about it, he was in complete shock when they called out the team on Monday. The teachers said they warned the class about loosing a minute of break time every time there is low level disruption, no tie, shirt not tucked in..etc but they made the decision without any warning for not attending the game.

That’s a really helpful update.

Just a couple more questions. How often have the team for this particular sport played matches? how often has your ds been selected to play for the school at this sport and do the team train in school outside of PE time (eg athletics club Wednesday lunchtime, or cricket practice after school on Tuesdays)?

I know these seem like silly questions, but it’s all part of the bigger context.

My ds’s journey through school sport was tough at primary. Had quite a lasting impact, so I do sympathise. Lots of really strong emotions for him to work through.

They may not have explicitly said, "If you, Kaisapol28's son, misbehave you won't go." but I'd bet there has been lots of reminders of the school values, important events coming up and the importance of upholding said values if they want to be chosen.
I taught Y6 for many years and an opportunity like this is a godsend as an incentive for encouraging good behaviour.
He probably didn't misbehave badly enough to warrent calling in a parent, especially in those very busy few weeks before SATs but didn't behave well enough to justify choosing him over another child.
Whether he learns from this depends on what you do next.

This particular sport there was training during PE this week for the children that got picked on Monday, otherwise none. Its a tournament that they were attending.

I am not scrolling through hundreds of posts and don’t be rude, I wasn’t rude to you. You came on here asking for advice and have been given advice yet you continue to defend your sons behaviour. If he has been reminded numerous times then he shouldn’t be ‘forgetting’. If it’s been happening continually over the last few weeks he deserves punishment, as I said, his ass would have been in school today upset or not, you are doing your child no favours by keeping him home today and perhaps he’d have learnt a valuable lesson.

YANBU
I hate when kids like yours (and mine) are made examples of whilst the real little shits of the class get a minor telling and carry on being little shits. It's deliberately designed as a example to others except the others couldn't care less. In my DDs case, they got sick of being singles out for minor stuff, including her teacher saying she had overheard her talking about another teacher- despite 6 pupils who she wasn't mates with, all saying she wasn't talking about said teacher, but about some anime character, and who refused to apologise despite the others speaking up. DD for punished with a days isolation. It was ridiculous.

If course, DD reacted by deciding if everyone was going to treat her like a disruptive pupil, then she may as well be one. We had a horrific year as a result. School acted baffled until I had meeting with the head and governors and said they were the cause for being so OTT.

Meanwhile, a persistent nasty kid burned her with a Bunsen burner, she got told off for crying, he got his name on the board. She got thumped in class, ended up with a bruise and they chucked her out because the boy who thumped her said she hit him. Teacher didn't see what happened and just decided it must be DD.

I would say to school that they are at fault here. It blows my mind that schools are still playing favourites for treats and sports. Who cares if they win, let those who want to try have a go.

I'd be happy he is leaving soon but be cautious that they won't red flag him to his next school.

I appreciate what you are saying, however as per my previous posts. We had already been through a similar incident once. It was a one off incident a while back where he was put on the team and then taken off due to the incident.

When discussing with the school after it was agreed that they would tell us if his behaviour changed so that he was given a chance to rectify and make the team.

This is exactly for the point that you made that it is a fantastic incentive for them, and the school recognised this, but unfortunately this time round they did not use it as an incentive for him, perhaps they were too busy dealing with other kids behavioural issues and forgot but it caused a lot of unnecessary stress for him.

When discussing with the school after it was agreed that they would tell us if his behaviour changed so that he was given a chance to rectify and make the team
Again; you’re assuming that he’ll only behave appropriately with your direct intervention.
Why?

Tbh I wouldn't have thought that a tie & a tucked in shirt is "ramping up" anything!

I'm not assuming that at all, however clearly somethings in his behaviour has changed and the having a minute out of break time is by the school is not cutting it
Perhaps he needed a good sit down with a teacher or a chat from the headmaster or miss break time completly to get the message, or a phone call home to see if mum and dad could have a word. That's what they have done in previous years.

Again useful update @Kasiapol28 . As a primary school teacher, I won’t pretend that teachers always do things perfectly. They just don’t. My dc went to a private primary, where sport was super important, and often handled badly for all but a few in each year.

If there isn’t a formal team for the sport, your ds doesn’t attend extra curricular training for the sport (because there isn’t any), then he can’t assume that he would automatically be picked.

It’s hard to hear, I know, but with the context you’ve given, selection will be quite informal. And part of that selection will be based on teachers wanting to give opportunities to children who they feel would really benefit from it.

Low level disruption is a really insidious form of poor behaviour. It may feel small to you and your son, but it will seem hugely unfair to the other children in the class if someone who is talking, distracting others etc gets chosen for special treats. It makes the class seem unfair and children lose trust in the teacher.

It would be different if your son was formally part of an established team, and then was dropped with no warning or opportunity to turn his behaviour round beforehand. But that’s not what’s happened here.

Thank you I have made it clear many times that I agree that low level disruption shouldn't be allowed. It's disruptive full stop, should be consequences whole heartedly agree.

However the consequence need to match the crime otherwise we are just creating a bigger problem.

With regards to the team he was specifically told that he would have gone but as a punishment for his behaviour they decided not to let him.

Thank you appreciate your input.

Hang on.

So it's not that he was selected and then removed, he was never selected in the first place? None of you are doing yourselves any favours here, this is a completely disproportionate reaction to not being picked for a sports team, for any reason. Talented players will always miss out for one reason or another.

In this case, they have plenty of talented players so they picked the ones who are good but will also represent the school well with their behaviour. In this case, your son isn't behaving so he didn't get picked.

And by not getting picked he should have gotten a day of bouncy castles and celebrations.

Staying home, crying to the point of migraine, complaining to the school are all completely disproportionate for not getting picked for the school football team (or whatever).

You need to be more consistent with your behaviour management. So he only has to behave in the run up to things that interest him?

You can't have read OP's replies if you have taken this from them.

You were rude as you called my sons behaviour stupid, completly unecessary.

I am only trying to get people opinions and it is nice to see so many people willing to put there point through kindly and politely, we don't all have to see eye to eye but we can still be civil.

It does sound harsh. Also it will backfire on them if he doesn't do as well in his Sats. Good thing is he will be out of this school soon. Bad news is secondary school is much worse - it will probably be a day's isolation for untucking a shirt. As the more uncomfortable the child is the more they learn, apparently. 🤔 Though some grammar schools are a little more relaxed and sensible.