Harsh punishment at primary school complaint

[Kasiapol28]

Hi there, sorry for the long thread...

I am after some advice on how to proceed with the school. My son ( 11 yo, year 6 ) is a bright boy and does well at school, even passing the grammar test for a local school. He has had 2 parents meeting so far this year and at everyone his teacher has praised him on behaviour and his work. No issues mentioned.

His heart is in sport, he plays football out of school and and this year he was chosen to be a sports ambassador at the school ( along with 60 others ) which meant he was able to to go to football tournaments, athletics..e.t.c .

Although the selection for teams is meant to be fair for everyone, the same 6 boys always get chosen and then the spares picked from the rest of the kids. These 6 boys are very close friends with my son.

However since January the school have been excluding him from certain sports events due to 'behaviour issues'.

On both occasions the school did not even bother to contact me to tell me that my son had been excluded from the events and at no point did they contact me to tell me they were having concerns with his behaviour. So obviously I was very taken aback by this. How can I work with him on his so called ' low disruption behaviour' as they called it , if I don't even know it is happening.

I wrote to the headteacher as I felt this was a very harsh punishment, to which he even replied that although he felt my child's behaviour was not extreme he was not following the school values and so the punishment stayed.

The reason he was not allowed to attend the latest event was because he was not tucking his shirt in, had not worn a tie on one occasion, and was causing ' low Distribution in class' year leaders words.

The issue is that they chose to announce who was going to the event on Monday of SATS week and the event was happening on that Friday which was also meant to be a celebration day at the school for finishing SATS with bouncy castles and all sorts. This caused a lot of necessary stress during what is a hard time for him during SATS week.

When my son heard the news that he was not picked and his group of friends were going to the event he was heartbroken. It has effected him all week and he has been in tears and feels left out and will not have anyone to share the celebrations with. I have not sent him into school today as he was so upset last night, seeing him in tears like that broke my heart, he is a good boy, doesn't swear at teachers or hurt kids, I just feel heartbroken for him.

Is it just me or does that seem rather extreme punishment ? Surely missing some lunch/ play or even a phone call to me so I could help him work at it would have been enough for this type of behaviour ?

You may have missed it, given that this thread has become very long, but I'm still wondering about the fact that your son and his friends were discussing their mischievous behaviour over the phone. It does sound as though they're egging one another on. I suspect that this is part of the problem.

Low level disruption is the worst, speaking as teacher. It really derails the lesson insidiously. And things like taking a while to answer the register may seem petty to you but it holds up the lesson before it's even begun. Lots of kids do it deliberately and then claim they didn't mean to. It's wearing and a low-level tactic to waste time. Also, he shouldn't be talking during the register - we need to be able to hear who is present and who is not.
I don't think the sanction is harsh. Listen to what the school is telling you.

The punishment absolutely does fit the crime - if the school can't trust you to behave yourself, they won't pick you to represent them.

The way he needs his parents to support him is not to take the view that the school were out of line, but to back up the school, encourage him to behave from now on, and make him realise that not getting picked for one team is far from the end of the world.

Oh do please get a grip.

Low level disruption in class is tiresome and constant. If a kid won’t follow instructions in class, why would teachers want to take them anywhere knowing they’ll be liable for them if they don’t follow instructions outside of the school.

I think children should be aware that what level of consequence they can expect

I tthink children should behave when they've repeatedly been told they are misbehaving, and I think they should expect that the punishment will be something that matters to them, otherwise it's not going to have much effect, is it? If the child knows the punishment is just going to be 'a warning' (which is no punishment at all, actually), then they'll probably carry on misbehaving, which is what your ds seems to have done. He might think twice after this one though! That's the whole point, isn't it?

Hmmm, might be interesting to see what you post when he's fifteen.... Secondary school is going to be "different"...

Hi sorry, im not saying he shouldn't do as he is told because he passed grammar, I just mean that he works hard in class and does well academically and this shows especially as he passed grammar.

This is completely irrelevant though. It's perfectly possible to do well academically while not behaving very well, if you're bright. OP - if this punishment ends up being a bit of a wake-up call, it may mean thet he starts secondary school having learned a valuable lesson which will set him on a good path. But probably only if that's the way you aapproachit with him. The alternative is that you teach him that he doesn't deserve consequences and that if he gets upset when he gets in trouble, you'll let him have a day off. I'm sure you can imagine what effect that will have on his attitude and school career. I've taught lots of kids whose parents adopt that attitude. They think they are sticking one to the mean school,but all they are really doing is setting their child up to fail in life.

It's not okay that they didn't notify the parents that there is a behavioural problem and I would want to know exactly what the low level disruption behaviour was. If he has been causing trouble then fair enough but you need details and communication which it seems they haven't given you (or you aren't saying). Most likely they are being fair but there is always a chance that he is being treated unfairly and teachers aren't above favouritism so if you feel like something is wrong push for more details and go from there.

I agree with you up to a point.
However, sanctions because a shirt isn't tucked in is ridiculous.
It's been really hot lately. Some of the schools around my way are putting kids in detention if they don't wear their blazers, yet the teachers are in short sleeves/skirts/dresses (aka summer wear).

Trying to understand- was it his place that the other child got? Or a place that was open to any child that fit the criteria?
If your son was chosen would the other child then have been punished because they were not chosen?

if an event was upcoming we could try to rectify the behaviour before it led to exclusion from events.

So you wouldn't bother about his behaviour unless it was going to mean he was not invited on events?
That really says it all.

Hopefully he'll realise that they're not going to tell him so he needs to behave all the time, not just when there's an event coming up he wants to go on

However, sanctions because a shirt isn't tucked in is ridiculous.

It depends. If that were the only reason and it was a one-off, yes. If it's part of a pattern of misbehaviour and the child has been asked multiple times to tuck his shirt in and deliberately not done so,that's different.

If I had a pound for every student who wailed 'But I only did <x small infraction>!' when actually <x small infraction> was one in a looong lime of repeated infractions and ignored polite requests and warnings, I'd be a rich woman.

I agree with you, but according to the OPs post at 11.01 not answering the register is fine because school is not the Army, and talking when you have been asked to be quiet is a child merely finishing off a conversation because that is what children do - even very bright 11 year old Golden children who have been previously chosen as an ambassador to represent their school. The OP admits these are low level disruptions but seems to think that it is OK because her child is not swearing at the teacher or , in her opinion , showing disrespect .

I really don’t think the OP understands the wasteful effect of low level disruption both on classroom learning and on teacher patience and morale. I really don’t think she realises that actually teachers will have explained many times, slowly and clearly, that attendance at special events where a child is representing the school depends on observed behaviour and attitudes in school.

I'm a primary school teacher and I guarantee you your child has negatively impacted other children's learning. School are actually helping you, big time, give your precious son a wake up call. You have regrettably denied its impact. Allowing you son to experience disappointment and shame is not a mental health problem or anxiety, it's beginning to understand actions have consequences and bad behaviour can be embarrassing. You have stopped that lesson being learnt by keeping him off school. He could have become a nicer child today by going to school.

Who would want to be a teacher when parents are this weak.

Schools are in loco parents so trust them to do their job . The teachers saw what happened you didn’t so let them decide the appropriate level of punishment. You seem hell bent on arguing your ds was hard done by. I had a colleague at work with very poor boundaries of behaviour who did something which was classified as gross misconduct. On hearing this her mother came into our office unannounced to have it out with her manager as she felt her daughter was being hard done by. It did not help her case and she was eventually sacked and lost her licence to practise. Do not be that mother.

You’ve asked for opinions and you’ve been given them. You accused me of being lazy not reading through loads of comments. I explained I am sight impaired to do this. You see, the software I use is really quite slow in translating so many comments that you quite clearly accused me of being lazy to read as did another poster. I find it very odd that you chose not to respond to my post yet you responded to another I’d made? Anyway, moving on from that…

As I said earlier as have many others you ARE ‘that’ parent. You never mentioned the migraine in your OP all you mentioned was your son was upset and I believe that was the real reason you kept him off today. You really are THAT parent and your son will never learn consequences if you continue to parent the way you’re choosing to do at the moment.

I feel sorry for any future partner your son will have tbh of mummy is always there to minimise his actions in life.

Couldn't agree more. I had that partner. HAD. Nearly 50 and mummy still tells him everyone is wrong and he is always right. Can't keep a job, a flat, a family...

Well I've read all the OP's post and I can't quite work out why she was so convinced her son should be selected, and not another equally or slightly more golden child? It looks like their are limited places so surely selection is a bonus, and not being selected is just life - not a punishment. She appears to want her son to replace a selected child (shifting the so-called punishment).

He is playing you like a fiddle OP and you are doing him NO favours.

He was not selected for something, for whatever reason, and he has mummy and daddy fawning all over him with broken hearts because he was upset. Day off school and all 🙄
You say that had YOU been told his behaviour wasn't great, you could have spoken to him and then it would have been HIS choice to behave or not? WTF?
How about the fact that he is old enough to behave, he didn't and he missed out? Still his choice, right?
He was not selected for something. Considering that not everyone could go, I assume others were not chosen as well. If you don't think his behaviour should have been the reason he wasn't picked, then don't make that the issue. Not everyone can be picked. He wasn't. Happens to everyone at some point. You're just as much the problem here, if not THE problem. Creating upset and issues where there needn't be any. All he's learnt from this is that the school was wrong and how dare they treat him like that. What's that going to do to his behaviour going forward. No lesson learnt because he is a victim

Yes, I've read the thread so don't rudely tell me to "and get back to me" as if anyone who isn't on board hasn't done so.

Don’t forget that the ones who didn’t go weren’t doing double maths in a dark room but were playing on a bouncy castle. But DS didn’t have all his friends with him so he couldn’t have any fun at all.

I think that teaching children to learn from their mistakes is very wise. Learn from it, then move on.

Honestly op , of course you're disappointed for him. I totally get this and I' can totally see that you wish you'd had a heads up so you could reenforce the message at home and maybe prevented this.
I think the conversation you need to have with your son is while expressing sympathy for his disappointment, point out that he has ultimately brought this on himself and it's a really important life lesson for him in that regardless of how talented you are, if you don't behave or follow certain rules contact negative consequences will follow

From the schools point of view. If there were a limited number of places then the optics of them sending a boy who publicly disrupts class looks very poor in front of wider student body.
I'd try and move on from this but it's a crappy end to his primary years

I know this may not be the response you are hoping for. But missing out on things is a part of life. You can't solve everything for your child and perhaps he needs help getting to grips with the feeling of disappointment.

My DS plays sports and has recently been left out of something (nothing to do with behaviour) but has had to navigate these feelings and I feel it is good for him.

I think it is important for you to model how it is ok to be disappointed but it shouldn't stop you from doing day to day things (like going to school). You can't solve every problem for your DS. He needs to feel some lessons.

No sorry I think yabu. It was wrong of the school to not tell you sooner you could address the problem at school, but I can imagine the type of ‘low level disruption’ they are talking about includes stuff like playing the clown in class, not listening, disrupting others and giving cheek and the school can’t be seen to tolerate this.
How do you even know that the other kids are getting away with poor behaviour?
Don’t be ‘that parent’ who thinks their child is an angel and should get away with stuff like this. Maybe rather than indulge him being heartbroken you should encourage him to reflect on why he got into this position.