Independent schools while on UC

[Luluace]

Hi all,

I have have two boys (7 and 3) whom I would like to try for independent school. Youngest will be starting reception in Sept and he is a bright spark. Oldest also. There are a couple of schools I have looked into ( Dulwich prep/college and St Paul’s). I have seen that these schools offer scholarships/bursaries.
Recently been made homeless due to DV and have had to sign up for UC for the first time in my life, and so have missed and entrance exam assessments to schools. Has anyone had any chance of being offered a place after assessments and places offered? How straightforward with the school offering scholarship/bursary?
Specifically asking to those on UC or other benefits? How did you liaise with the school to inform them and how did they respond?

To those whose kids made enters to these schools, how was the process, especially if you are either on low income or on benefits?
What prep and for how long? I am not familiar with the system and just need to understand and both my kids will benefit from the challenge of private. State school my first was in never challenged him and they wanted every child to be on the same level which is impossible. A small class size is another thing of interest.

please advise/suggest.

Just to add because my fingers got carried away while typing. This is 100% scholarship and bursary combined. I haven’t asked any questions to the school as still processing it. Both registration was made a while back (although after the deadlines) and not at the time of posting in case it isn’t obvious to some and there were some other things I didn’t mention. The fact remains, the opportunity is an amazing blessing.

is it? Why?

Absolutely well done to your DC OP. Just a word of caution ... check the terms of the bursary very carefully to check eligibility going forward. You are on UC now but is the bursary for the whole school life or is it reassessed annually depending on income and is it dependent on academic achievements?
I only say as my son has a scholarship and he is required to maintain a minimum academic result to keep the scholarship, this is secondary though

It is also worth bearing in mind that if Labour instigate their awful plan to tax private education then the availability and size of bursaries will reduce dramatically.

Well yes, bursaries are a big part of the reason why they as business can masquerade as charities. It's hardly an awful plan. Nothing stopping private schools still giving subsidised places purely for altruistic reasons.

That won’t happen because the places are funded by other full fee paying parents who will not be happy to continue with such an arrangement.

I have already spoken with the Head of our school about this and he has confirmed this is one way they’ll mitigate some of the impact of VAT.

I’m not sure how you don’t consider it awful that if nothing else the VAT plan will remove opportunity for some lower earning families such as those in similar situations to the OP.

Which London independent schools give scholarships to 3 year olds? Presumably these are acdemic scholarships as they cant be sport or music scholarships at that age surely? How can you predict how well a child will do in their GCSEs or grammar school tests or A levels or university admissions (because that is what independent schools are selecting for, lets be honest) at 3??

bursaries are a big part of the reason why they as business can masquerade as charities

Not all private schools are charites - only around half are. Even those which aren’t charities still offer bursaries.

Also, the VAT position and charitable status are entirely separate things.

The bursary funds still come from full fee paying parents though surely? There will inevitability be less of those around going forward if they have to pay VAT. The ones already in the system at secondary will limp through, sure, but I know lots of parents with younger kids who are desperately trying to move into grammar school areas and good catchments now as they know there's no way they'll be able to get even 50% fee reduction at secondary for all their kids with the 20% vat and there's no way they could pay full fees, even before the 20% vat, so they've written off private school from the outset. I'm amazed anyone would start down that route now unless independently wealthy, especially as you cant gauarantee a teenager will keep up the effort required to re qualify for a bursary or scholarship every year.

When they are being targeted by VAT why the hell would they be altruistic with the money coming from fee paying parents?

The bursary funds still come from full fee paying parents though surely?

Schools whose bursary funds come from endowments have always seemed a better choice.

you cant gauarantee a teenager will keep up the effort required to re qualify for a bursary or scholarship every year.

That hasn’t been the way things work at any independent school I know well. Only a significant increase in income / assets would cause a reduction in the bursary. And I’ve never heard of anyone losing a scholarship.

Bursaries are (normally) contingent on good behaviour and good effort, not on actual results.

Bursaries are reassessed, and that can be annually, but that is looking at changes in family finances (not how the pupil is doing).

I know at least 6 or 7 teenage boys that I can think of that 'came to an agreement' across 3 different schools (London independants) to 'give up' scholarships, either entering year 10 or entering sixth form. These were friends of my own teenage children. One was on a joint academic and sports scholarship, but absolutely hated the academic component which involved extra out of hours academic lectures on a Friday evening when he wanted to be at the rugby club with his mates. 3 were music scholarships where they either just fell out of love with the instrument and didnt want to do the twice daily practice needed to get up to grade 8 or didn't want to do the mandatory evening school concerts, sometimes 2 a week, because they wanted to concentrate on GCSEs/A level revision. 1 got to grade 8 and then just went right, that's it, I'm done, I'm joining a rock band and only playing outside of school. One was on a cricket scholarship and unfortunately got very overweight during lockdown and then just couldn't be competitive and couldn't be selected for the first team. Another boy was on a Rugby scholarship but other boys got naturally bigger and stronger as they got to 15/16 (as often happens when they select in the at 11) and he couldn't maintain his position in the A team and got dropped to the Bs. The schools I have experience of won't keep a child on a sports scholarship for very long if they cant very quickly get back into the A team after a term or 2 in the Bs. They can't because other B team famillies complain.

I dont have direct experience or burasies but anecdotally have heard that they are more about family financial position and are reassessed each year. Some of the children above were on a mix of scholarship and bursary to cover most or all fees, so when they lost the scholarships, those families had to find soemtimes 10K per annum that they hadn't previously been paying to see the child through the last 2/3/5 years of secondary school and some left after gcses and went to state sixth from because of this.

Teenagers are teenagers whichever academic option they've been put in and it can be very hard to make them do things they dont want to do, irrespective of how much money their parents have.

Thinking about it there was one kid in my son's year who was on a 100pc bursary (you're not supposed to know but the kids are all ipen about it and none of them seem to care) and he was asked to leave the school at 15 after a serious behavioural incident. Every year 1 or 2 kids get kicked out or 'asked to leave' for after multiple suspensions or an expulsion and this happens across full fee paying, scholarship and bursary kids equally - see my previous comment about teenagers.

This incredible joint 100pc scholarship/bursary is only the beginning OP, just go in with your eyes wide open as lots can change over a child's academic lifetime.

Every year 1 or 2 kids get kicked out or 'asked to leave' for after multiple suspensions or an expulsion and this happens across full fee paying, scholarship and bursary kids equally

Well, yes …

well I have, very commonly at the end of year 10, when transfer out of the system is near impossible, especially when they have been studying iGCSEs instead of the standard GCSEs offered in state schools

No, it depends. The bursaries at my kids private school are funded by the original charitable endowment. They aren't funded from fees. That's the case for the three major Dulwich schools - DC, JAGS and Alleyns.

Having been through the 4+ with my own children, (successfully, at a through school), this is a complete fabrication. Schools don't do bursaries at 4+

Well yes precisely. Only the OP believes this.

The 3 yo couldn't have got a bursary at either of the schools named in the opening post.

There are preps which offer bursaries, so perhaps she has bent the truth to maintain privacy and is talking about a different school completely.

I'm mildly surprised at any school has unallocated bursary funds at this time of year, but would have to concede that it's not impossible. I think the timelines must have been somewhat modified though too (as assessments during a school holiday are highly improbable) so perhaps it hangs together better than it seems.

Indeed, @AnotherNewt …

I will never understood why people start threads like this. Who are they seeking to draw out? What responses are they looking for? It’s terribly sad.

Cool story, bro.

What responses are they looking for? It’s terribly sad.

Oh, I dunno. Loads and loads of people have no idea about any of this stuff - so if the thread broadens knowledge and helps anyone to consider something they hadn’t before it’s all good.

I assume they have pre conceptions of MN and want lots of pearl clutching about UC and private school. And then are mildly disappointed when they get kind, robust, useful advice.

It's the blatant lying for me