Independent schools while on UC

[Luluace]

Hi all,

I have have two boys (7 and 3) whom I would like to try for independent school. Youngest will be starting reception in Sept and he is a bright spark. Oldest also. There are a couple of schools I have looked into ( Dulwich prep/college and St Paul’s). I have seen that these schools offer scholarships/bursaries.
Recently been made homeless due to DV and have had to sign up for UC for the first time in my life, and so have missed and entrance exam assessments to schools. Has anyone had any chance of being offered a place after assessments and places offered? How straightforward with the school offering scholarship/bursary?
Specifically asking to those on UC or other benefits? How did you liaise with the school to inform them and how did they respond?

To those whose kids made enters to these schools, how was the process, especially if you are either on low income or on benefits?
What prep and for how long? I am not familiar with the system and just need to understand and both my kids will benefit from the challenge of private. State school my first was in never challenged him and they wanted every child to be on the same level which is impossible. A small class size is another thing of interest.

please advise/suggest.

haha okay, I’d say it’s not outright bullying but exclusion. 2 separate very well regarded schools. To be fair it was in the secondary stage but when dc are talking about holidays, helicopter travel etc there’s is a divide. My friend (teacher) invited her daughter’s friends over and once they saw the house the friendship ended and her dd was no longer in that group. She’s got other friends but there is a divide and I think it’s naive to think there isn’t. We see it in adult life all the time but you can deny it if you like.

A different teacher friend was invited with her dd for a play date. Host made coffee then said great I’ll be back in an hour and a half, leaving friend to be the single responsible adult in this person’s house looking after her own dd plus house owner’s dd while the host went for a run (because df is the dc teacher so free childcare obviously). As I said, different world and not seen as equals.

It really isn't t about "who you know", they have an application process and you have to follow it.
I fully understand your desire to enable your DC to have a private education but every private school is different so you need to speak to the admissions teams and bursars at each school.
Fyi your comment of "I have heard and seen those with a two household working parents receiving full scholarships and bursaries, and no one ever says any more than well done" sort of proves the point I was making. Many schools will expect you to be in work or earning some form of income even if your DC are on a bursary. Bursary assessments butlook into all aspects of your income/savings/assets etc. DDs school for example states "parents applying for a bursary will be expected to exhaust every avenue of finance including being fully employed, re-mortgaging" etc.

You also need to think about: uniform (can easily cost 1K to kit a child out for the first year), trips, lunches, transport etc. Some schools will cover these costs in a bursary offer, some won't. Again only the specific schools you are applying for will be able to give guidance on this.

Whilst no-one will be told who is on a bursary and private schools aren't all filled with uber-wealthy parents, a significant majority could be very wealthy (depending on the prestige of the school) and therefore there may be a culture of DC keeping up with iphones/top branded gear etc. Many schools AREN'T like this but it looks like you are aiming for top end so the chances increase. How will your DC manage that? Plus holidays: DD's school is a local, rural private school so no oligarchs etc but still the amount and types of holidays DC go on can be eye watering plus holiday homes/2nd homes etc. This is an aspect you need to be aware of and teachers your DC how to handle it. DDs friends all went skiing in half term, the Easter hols range from France in their 2nd home to America for 4 weeks.

Former scholarship kid here, yep - I was never bullied and noone knew since I didn’t disclose it.

Edit to add : all my schoolmates parents were nice and welcoming to me even though it was probably clear I wasn’t as rich as them. My mum didn’t drive so they’d often give us a lift after sports matches .

Yes, I didn’t come back after the holidays with tales of foreign trips etc but then some of the richer kids didn’t either.

I had a brilliant time tbh the only thing I’d say is that this was the 90s and they weren’t so hot on GDPR/data protection so I suspected some teachers knew and I did feel some teachers would be nicer to the rich kids!

Nowadays I don’t think majority of the teaching staff would be told though.

No judgement at all here I was raised in very low income family and got a scholarship to private school, I think you're wildly unrealistic though. The chance of both being given a full or even 90% scholarship at this age is miniscule sorry.

Totally worth aiming for as they're older though!

Full scholarship here and part scholarship for DD.
No bullying experienced by either of us for being poor

Hi,
Bullying is everywhere, not just private schools. It’s sad that your friend’s kids had to go through this, even more unfortunate that the school they were is didn’t handle it better that she had to choose to remove them.
I have heard of schools that have a zero tolerance to bullying and all kids are treated the same. Bullying should never be allowed at any school.

OP

If you have recently been made homeless, I would think about waiting to see where you end up settling before thinking about schools. St Paul’s (for example) may be local now, but you might end up somewhere else - also, somewhere with better state schools.

Your boys will have to pass entrance exams to get a place, including a bursary funded place, and they might be in a better head space to do so at 11+ than now, given recent disruption and life changes.

The younger one, maybe not till he’s at least into the system a bit. However, the oldest one has a good chance as he is 2 years and possibly 3 years ahead. State school is not the right place for him that is why I am looking elsewhere. Nothing widely unrealistic about knowing your child’s potential irrespective of anything which I am sure your parents saw in you. The aim would for him to pass well and wait and see if the school does offer after all formalities on parents wanting to their kids to be considered.

Yes, and a single mother fleeing violence is likely to be using every bit of time and energy she has left on trying to survive and support her children through trauma. I'd be very happy indeed to help support her children, who have been put at terrible disadvantage by the abuse, to gain a good education.

I'd also hope the OP can find some respite and time to recover, for herself and her children to find some stability, rather than rush into full time work (unless she finds it helpful to work full time, and has the resources and support necessary for that, of course).

There is no chance of you securing a place for Sept 2024, let alone a bursary. These schools have long waiting lists full of bright boys and bursary funds will already have been allocated. Bursaries are also very rare before 11 and almost unheard of before 7. Work on preparing them for the 11+ and if they are as bright as you say they should snap up a bursary.
Unless you can't work through illness/disability or because you are a carer then you are very unlikely to be offered a full bursary.

Go for it OP.

Some of the comments here have been wildly off mark, and rude.

I know many parents who don't pay a bean for fees ( Grandparents,/ parents or trusts or using house price inflation from inherited property they got for nothing from their parents). Partial Bursary payments paid to middle classed parents on 70K income who are rich compared to you, but not rich compared to many others.

to a certain extent, the maze of applying for private schools , like applying to Oxford or applying for a top job in a media company, it is a HUGE advantage if you have friends and family 'in the know' what to prep your child for, when to register, when to apply, etc, etc, etc...so its true it is 'who you know' to a certain extent. But you can gain all this knowledge, but you must gain it in isolation if this isn't part of your clique and friends and family .

Have a list of schools , both state and private.

My advice would be to self tutor, get yourself in a stable position , all London primary schools are at least decent, a few teachers will at least TRY and help if you're aiming for 11+ entry schools, Read up on 11+ entry and try for the many schools that offer full bursary and try state grammar schools and semi selective schools that are very good also.

You don't have to pay for a tutor, you can tutor yourself, look on Ebay and buy used Bond books, etc.

Spend hours researching right here on MN, lots of entry advice and bursary advice also.

Most of all be realistic, it may happen, it may not, have a plan B, plan C, and Plan D, and make sure your DC are all in with the plan!

Best of Luck!!

No harm in calling up and having a conversation with the bursar. A very bright child with a parent on UC will be a prime candidate for a bursary but if you've missed the deadline then it's highly unlikely they'll consider them for this Septembers intake. Bursaries can be combined with scholarships to make up the full fees.

There will be occasional places in yrs 4,5 as these schools have international families who move around. These occasional places may not have bursaries available though.

Another option if independent doesn't work out is to consider the super selective grammar schools in Barnet (QE Boys), Orpington (St Olaves) and Dartford Grammar (Dartford) for year 7. They have excellent results (on a par with Dulwich College) and even better in some subjects. There are other less selective grammar schools too in the borough of Bexley and throughout Kent or Bucks if you're in north London which are very good.

The eleven plus exams forum has advice on which exam admission formats the independent and grammar schools use. In my opinion, lots of boys are very good at maths, not so many at English at this age so excellent admission test results in both is likely to make him stand out.

By the way, Bond books are a good starting point but not useful material for preparation for the top independent and grammar schools. Look on the eleven plus forum for more targeted practice for the individual schools. If you go for 11+ the book your child on to the various mock tests the schools run. It will give you a very good idea of where your child would sit in a self selecting, bright cohort.

For these top schools, the only thing that will matter is a) can your children pass the exam and b) can you afford to pay the fees. If your children pass and you cannot afford the fees they are likely to offer you at least some bursary funds (for somewhere like St Paul's, the cut off for bursaries is pretty high so if you are on an ordinary sort of income you would likely be eligible for a full bursary). There is a useful page here about what might be available (though obviously all schools will have different arrangements and criteria): https://www.stpaulsschool.org.uk/admissions/bursaries-assistance-with-fees/bursaries-faqs/

Re UC, the school would want to see that you are making every attempt to earn a living - but I am sure they would take homelessness and DV into account here. If you were not working they would want to know why. Obviously there are reasons why someone may be unable to work - illness, disability, caring responsibilities etc. I would imagine DV and homelessness might come under this umbrella, at least temporarily while you get back on your feet.

But you are very unlikely to get any kind of bursary for a 3 or 7 year old. Your best option is for your children to go to a state school and apply for the usual 11+ process. I know St Paul's Girls' does quite a lot of outreach to local state primaries and the boys' school is probably the same. There are also other schools that offer bursaries - Latymer Upper is not far from St Paul's and has a higher than average number of children on bursaries and they do say that they offer a limited number of awards for children from Y3 upwards. All of these schools take a fair number of children from state schools at the normal entry points and it is not a barrier to success in gaining a place, though the majority of people will do at least some preparation for the exams.

Since you have missed the admissions round this year, your best bet would be to contact the bursars and admissions departments of the schools you are interested in and ask them about primary school age bursaries and about the process for entry/possibility of a place outside of the normal entry points. It is in their interests to give you information about this! I am sure any good school would be happy to help you understand how it might work.

Finally, it really isn't about 'who you know'. All these schools are interested in is how clever your children are. You should also look at the state grammars eg Tiffin in Kingston.

What a vile comment, you can have an excellent work ethic, working hard with long hours and still claim UC.

kindly, the spread is massive, probably 10% of children could be described as 2 or 3 years ahead - and of course if you are assessing him yourself, you are going to see the best he can do - you know him. He won't perform as well in a classroom, or when assessed by other adults.

And state schools cater to all children, from many years "behind" to many years "ahead". There is no reason to say state school is not the right place for him, from anything you have said.

Only formal education is done at school, everything else is done at home, so you need to be supporting and encouraging him in different ways at home to complement what he is doing at school. That is the way forward.

Not true at all. We are an ordinary family who decided to prioritise private education for our kids. A lot of the other parents are in the same boat. Yes you get the rich show off's but mostly you would have no idea of their circumstances. Also there are kids there who have grandparents or divorced parents who pay the fee's.

I've never seen bullying about how rich or poor anyone is. My eldest is in year 6 now and has never had any problems. We too are a normal family, 3 bed semi, normal family car

To be honest, as a single mother (working and on U.C. and beyond exhausted by menopause and struggling with past DV trauma) with DC a year or so ahead and bored at primary school, I looked into the private school entrance stuff and realised the amount of preparation it would take would be so exhausting it wasn't worth it. I used the Bond books to help DC get an idea of tests, especially the verbal and non-verbal reasoning (which DC found easier than I did). DC did quite well in the state school tests, but we decided to go for an ok-sounding academy instead because it has a reputation for nurturing and family atmosphere. I believe feeling safe and happy is the biggest factor in doing well academically

Having said that, I did exceptionally well academically (scholarship to private school, Oxbridge) from a single parent homeless childhood, but was very depressed and hated my school, as did my brother who had a scholarship at one if the boys' London private schools. And there was some bullying for being from less well off backgrounds, though this was decades ago, so hopefully it's better now there's more emotional awareness in schools!

To those I have offended, I apologise. It was my understanding that universal credit was only payable if people worked 16 hours or less per week. If this is not so, my comment was unwarranted.

Congratulations on leaving the DV situation, any woman can be unlucky in who her partner turns out to be, but too few unlucky women have the strength to do what you have already done. To see that, plus your ambition for your children, is inspiring.

Any thread on Mumsnet about private schools (or indeed any aspiration) attracts a lot of negativity and a ‘know your place’ vibe from the envious/lazy. So although I haven’t read the whole thread, I expect there will be a lot of posts you should ignore.

You need to identify prep schools who actively want to give 110% bursaries to those in need and aren’t just offering 50% bursaries to geniuses. Ie you want to look for schools who are looking for someone like you. I suspect that St Pauls isn’t on that list but it’s certainly worth asking the bursar how many 110% bursaries they give each year and what the process is.

You’ll probably be looking for deeply Christian schools, as those often have obligations in their founding charter about providing some free places and so they are actively looking for children to give them too. Ask yourself if you’re able to move to a new area (eg I’ve heard that St Michael’s Prep in Sevenoaks has been generous with bursaries in the past).

Be careful though as many schools may say you need to be on their waiting list to apply for bursaries, which usually attracts a £100 admin fee so you need to know if that can be waived for bursary applications and assuming not, you don’t want to make lots of application payments that might go nowhere.

Good luck, and whatever school your children end up at I’m sure with your drive and attentiveness they will do well. As will you.

yes this is incorrect. I know several single parents working full time and receiving universal credit. It’s essentially income assessed.

@Ebme "You need to identify prep schools who actively want to give 110% bursaries to those in need and aren’t just offering 50% bursaries to geniuses. Ie you want to look for schools who are looking for someone like you. I suspect that St Pauls isn’t on that list but it’s certainly worth asking the bursar how many 110% bursaries they give each year and what the process is."

I think actually that somewhere like SPS is exactly where she needs to look, although possibly not at prep level. The big name schools have a lot more money and most seem to be actively engaged in widening access. This screenshot is from the register of charities and says that most bursaries there are full fee or higher than 75% of the fees, and that they also include stuff like music lessons, uniform and school trips. I seem to recall a previous head talking about aiming for needs blind admission at some point, too.

Thank you. Your suggestions are most helpful and will take them into consideration. I have self tutored since they were little and I am at a point where I might have to consider help as I feel that my 7 yr old is learning at such a rapid pace. It’s exhausting when I have to first understand the concept before teaching him. But he seems to have benefited from the various techniques I have used. Feels like I’m the one who is back in school 🤯🙂

So helpful. Thank you! Will look into it