Independent schools while on UC

[Luluace]

Hi all,

I have have two boys (7 and 3) whom I would like to try for independent school. Youngest will be starting reception in Sept and he is a bright spark. Oldest also. There are a couple of schools I have looked into ( Dulwich prep/college and St Paul’s). I have seen that these schools offer scholarships/bursaries.
Recently been made homeless due to DV and have had to sign up for UC for the first time in my life, and so have missed and entrance exam assessments to schools. Has anyone had any chance of being offered a place after assessments and places offered? How straightforward with the school offering scholarship/bursary?
Specifically asking to those on UC or other benefits? How did you liaise with the school to inform them and how did they respond?

To those whose kids made enters to these schools, how was the process, especially if you are either on low income or on benefits?
What prep and for how long? I am not familiar with the system and just need to understand and both my kids will benefit from the challenge of private. State school my first was in never challenged him and they wanted every child to be on the same level which is impossible. A small class size is another thing of interest.

please advise/suggest.

Hampton also offer very generous bursaries and fully funded places. Over a 100 pupils are currently receiving fully funded places which includes free uniform, school transport, trips, lunches and co curricular clubs.

Have a look here https://hamptonschool.org.uk/admissions/fee-assistance/

I think if you truly know about child development, then you would also know that at primary school level children are able to be way ahead of others simply by having parents who are doing extra work at home.

It will all even out at secondary school and even more at A level.
Your DC will sit the same exam as the kids at the state school next door.
Having been through it all, that's my line of judgement about DC'S abilities.

I live in a deprived area and in an even more deprived town, no fancy independent schools in a 40 mile.radius.
So for my school choices, I had to stick to the local offerings. Which I don't regret, as DD has learned a lot from her peers and is definitely able to move around and understand all levels of society. She also got to experience different cultures right on her doorstep.

Education isn't just about academic achievements its also about social skills and nurturing interests outside of school.
Cultural Capital, a strong family bond and being open to new experiences is a huge part of a child's future. That's where my focus is.

I don't envy you, I just feel sorry for your DC being already coached to sit exams at a time of great upheaval.
I admit it's hard to nuture and grow these tiny human beings into big independent adults. That's no right or wrong, only time will tell if the paths you choose are the correct ones.

I've been a teacher in independent schools for 20+ years, but also for a while assistant Bursar.

I agree with many comments here that you need a plan B, as others have said fully funded bursaries at 4 are rare beasts, but they do exist.

Your best course of action is to talk to the Bursar at the schools you are interested in and lay out what you are looking for (ie fully funded), be prepared that whilst they will certainly be sympathetic and friendly, probably the boat has been missed, or wasn't even sailing.

If the application process has been missed the funds they have available will have likely been allocated, and as part of the schools being registered charities they have to be seen to be offering a robust, fair process.

Keep in mind that you are extremely unlikely to get a funded place at 4 for your child, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

If this fails, find out when the next round of applications is, ie: 7 and focus on that, make the best of state provision to that point, make sure you are ready to get your application in ahead of time.

In that time you will hopefully have got your life in a better place and maybe be able to pay some fees so not be reliant on the rarer full bursaries, and just be in a generally more stable position.

Worth also pointing out that, although often slated, state education can, and often is a very good experience, I've spent my whole career working in private schools, but went to a pretty rough comp, but there were jewels to be found there, great teachers with real passion, and an interesting mix of people - the ambience of leaking 60's flat roofing and peeling paint wasn't quite Eton, but it didn't do most of us any harm.

Sincere good luck!

my DD’s school still has it but that’s just a choice the school has made (in England).

Some others have touched upon it, but personally I don't think that a private education is a good investment until secondary level. If you would like to stretch your children or if they have emerging gaps by all means do some extra by using CGP books etc, but like a private school teacher has just said on here, most local authority primaries are very good nowadays. There are two private schools near where I live which have had poor inspections recently, and which offer a lower standard of education that a local authority primary. One was graded inadequate.

Painful reading …

Private schools may hike fees by 5% — then 15% more if Labour win

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f7bfa4b7-d847-4a6e-a648-aaf3d7824539?shareToken=37d5ec2c0d7dfed7d8af4822aee76f71

If you're London-based, I would look at relocating to Kingston within catchment of an outstanding primary school and prepping your DC for the Kingston grammars (Tiffin for boys). If they get in there, they will be amongst very bright children from a range of backgrounds and will receive an excellent free education.

It's quite uncomfortable being the 'poor' child amongst super-wealthy peers. It skews your value system while you receive none of the benefits of wealth and you're not really on an equal footing with your peers. I speak from experience - it's not something I'd really want for my kids.

We have a private primary near us that always gets bad ofsted but it’s filling a gap that ofsted don’t recognise so is valued by parents who use. A lot of children that have Sen (maybe undiagnosed Sen) can’t cope in large classes and may end up having meltdowns or not being able to attend mainstream school at al. The smaller private school means they can attend and learn something. Getting Sen support in mainstream is really difficult now, especially so if a child is academically able so some parents choose not to fight the fight and pay for a private school with small classes instead, but I agree with you for children like the op’s they will no doubt do well in any primary

It's quite uncomfortable being the 'poor' child amongst super-wealthy peers.

That’s why it’s sensible to choose an independent school with a large proportion of pupils in receipt of some level of fee support. I can quite see it would be horrible to be the one scholarship pupil in some awful Evelyn Waugh type of institution.

I’m glad to say our own bursary recipient had an entirely different experience to yours, @CrispieCake - but has found huge advantages in the opportunity for close observation of how wealth is exploited for power and influence in Britain. (And, as the school attracted an international pupil body, how that plays out globally.) It’s really been a comprehensive education.

I take it you are unaware that Universal Credit is an in-work benefit, and is often used to top up wages that are insufficient to live off? There are hundreds of thousands of people in the UK working really hard on Universal Credit. They are often working harder than the high earners who make economic decisions that lead to large sections of the UK workforce being paid too little to work on, necessitating benefits like UC in the first place.

@Morph22010 good point about SEN, hopefully something that the incoming government will consider when considering the status of independents.

They won't. They have already said they will only exempt DC with an EHCP and even then it isn't clear how that will happen.

Private schools aren't under Ofsted so they don't get inspected by Ofsted

@Catbustotoro

This point of view is horrific to me! I am a qualified, experienced specialist teacher, working full time, with two children as a single parent. I also receive UC to help with my rent.
In what way are they not experiencing an outstanding work ethic?!
Do you have any understanding at all of systemic privilege? It is not that those on lower incomes are not working as hard, it's that capitalism has deemed the jobs we are able to access less valuable, and not as deserving of recompense, often tied into the systematic misogyny that views "womens' work" as inherently less valuable.
I'd love to know what teaching job you think I could get that would pay me enough to send my children to private school.

This poster (roses and hellebores) has a history of objectionable posts, seems to really hate the poor and disabled. Not nearly as clever as she thinks she is either.

@twistyizzy That's not quite true. Private schools can choose to inspected by Ofsted as well as the ISI. Most private schools choose not to be as it is easier to get a better rating with ISI than with Ofsted.

Well yes I would think that the number who choose to is tiny, especially if they get poor Ofsted ratings.

If your child really is that gifted, talented and advanced I would suggest that they will do well in most state schools particularly given your own ambition and support. There are plenty of excellent state schools in your area that you should investigate. You sound rather naive and unrealistic. But then again if you have such a child prodigy the sky is the limit.

I agree that dismissing state schools is a mistake. Some are very good and many give DC a more rounded education outside of the rarefied bubble of private schools. Obviously smaller classes and such are a great thing and what we'd all want for our DC in an ideal world, but bright kids very often excel wherever they go with the right support, and it sounds like OP is very capable of giving lots of support at home. Indeed many private school kids still get tutored etc outside of school so it's not the be all and end all.

It's also especially worth keeping options very open given that there are two DC here and the chances of both being such prodigies and getting full fees paid is incredibly unlikely. Then you're into balancing whether both DC going to the same state school is in fact preferable to one getting a top-flight private education and the other not doing, which can cause more issues for one DC than you'd gain for the other.

It's all definitely worth exploring and I don't think there's as much of a 'know your place' attitude as the OP is anticipating, in fact it's more the realism that many people have the same ambitions as the OP so not all can achieve them. We all want the best for our kids and think they're deserving because of xyz, but while it's good to aim high, it's also good to have safety nets in place and not see any of the outcomes as lesser or a failure or unworthy of your DC. There's much more to life than private schooling or schooling full stop, so don't put too much pressure on yourself or on them to get the 2x100% goal.

This one does I’ve just looked and double checked rhe ofsted report, there’s even a category called “independent schools” on ofsted website where you search the reports

Why do these posts always attract the 'It's hard to be the poor child among the rich at private schools' posts?

There is also an enormous gap between the poor and more affluent at state schools but this never gets mentioned.

the chances of both being such prodigies and getting full fees paid is incredibly unlikely.

Children really don’t need to be prodigies! Just demonstrably bright and able to show they would benefit from the education and bring something to the school community or exam prospects. Unfortunately that’s lots of children - so lots of competition.

And of course things may well get harder under the next government.

I was only using that word in reference to the post i quoted. The point was more about the extremely low odds of both kids getting 100% fees funded.

Because the gap is more extreme, there are lots more rich kids and fewer poor kids. I'd have thought that's pretty obvious. It's good that it's not been a problem for some posters on here and that's hopeful going forward, but let's not pretend the two situations are comparable. It's harder to be poor vs rich in many spheres of life, but it's particularly relevant to a closed organisation where the vast majority of people there are paying £££ for the privilege while a handful are getting funded and have very different lives outside of the school. That's not comparable to a state school where no one's paying to go there and the kids will reflect the mix of people who live locally.

Of course its harder as a child to see all your friends going off on lovely holidays while your parents struggle to take you camping for a few days 40 miles away. Or having presents and clothes you can only dream of
There is always someone richer than ourselves, but these are children we are talking about.

The majority of the time it's not "who you know". As the others have said for a bursary it's how much your kids are going to bring to the school. Bursaries therefore tend to be for the older intakes because... and I say this with love... most four year olds aren't exceptional.

If a private school offers boarding, then those functions are always Ofsted inspected.

The inspection of the other functions (education etc) are normally by either ISI (Independent Schools Inspectorate) or SIS (Schools Inspection Service) both of which act as authorised proxies for Ofsted.

Some independent schools don't pay ISI or SIS for the service and therefore get the default Ofsted.