Told my 4 year old is behind at school

[dual90]

So yesterday we went to parents evening at my DD school. I kind of knew it wouldn’t be all that positive because a week before we had been invited into the school to view one of the classes. My DD was not her best that day, crying and clingy. I noticed she was being placed at the front of the class which I know isn’t a good sign! I come from an education background- so I’m well aware of certain words like ‘interventions’ etc.

My DD is one of the youngest in the class, so she’s on the bottom 5th age bracket as she is a summer baby. The teacher just seemed to focus on the negatives, but threw in she plays well and is happy! But then launched into she’s struggling with the learning and is not ‘retaining’ and information! I did challenge her on this as at home she makes all the sounds for phonics and recognition letters. She’s also been deemed as bright in nursery and counting to 20 since she was 2! She’s interested in numbers and counts a lot and she’s been doing this for a while. She then says she didn’t recognise numbers, again we challenged her on that too as she does recognise them at home. She seemed a little baffled and kept saying she was ‘behind her peers’.

For a start I thought most learning in reception was play based and we would t have this kind of pressure this early only 4 weeks into term and being told she is not matching up! I did say to the teacher that developmentally there is going to be huge differences in learning just by the sheer difference in age for some of the children, she firstly agreed with that then contradicted it by saying she has other kids the same age who are coping fine. But we still said she seems to be doing fine with these things when she’s at home. We also have no idea what it is she is supposed to be learning. She says she’s in a small ‘intervention’ group. I find this concerning that this is already happening and quite worried she will be pigeon holed straight away and this young age. She had never had a problem learning and nobody had flagged this before, in fact I’d say the opposite. Her speech is better than some children that are 2 years older than her. I had reservations about sending her this year anyway, I felt she may not be ready but she really wanted to go. I also am slightly dissolution ed with whole school system anyway, so for me it’s sadly confirmed many reservations I’ve had. I do not want her to be off as a 4 year old and she’s already had a very tough start in life.

The teacher says if she doesn’t catch up now the gap will get bigger, I found this a very negative thing to say. I know in other countries they don’t even start this stuff until 6 or 7? And they do just fine. But straight away the pressure is on. We will try and help her catch up, but just this morning after the teacher said she didn’t recognise numbers we nearly filmed her doing it as she recognised them all!! And she has done for a long time. I did point out to the teacher that she just doesn’t know the name of the game yet and that she needs to know these things, so it’s more immaturity than anything else.

any thoughts or advice

Definitely video her doing her numbers at home and show the teacher. She might just be overwhelmed in school since she is so young. You’re right it does seem to be too early to be having these concerns. There is way too much pressure on young children at school these days

Hmm it’s a bit worrying that the teacher has said this. And you seem to be mainly focussed on defending your child, perhaps understandably so. What does the teacher actually suggest you and your child do in order to help her cope better? This information is missing from your posts as far as I can see.
Many PPs have reassured you and you say yourself that you believe your child shows you at home that they are interested in learning. So try to remain calm, help your child get enough sleep and rest, enough play and plenty of stories, talk and activities for young children eg going to the park. Listen to the reception teachers advice about what to do, if she gives any. Hopefully given time your little one will find her feet and go from strength to strength.

I’d also ask when these interventions are being held. My daughter was also summer born and ‘behind’ and I found out that she was missing all the fun stuff to catch up on maths.

The teacher sounds bonkers. My son used to count at home and read and then I got to parents evening in reception and they told me his targets were really simple things he'd been doing for ages. They didn't make the fuss you've had over it though. It was a confidence issue, they're young and it's all new to them.

We got sent to do a repeat eye test and a repeat hearing test after the nurse came into school to do the checks .... turns out he was just so shy he failed both tests because they thought he couldn't see/hear, the repeat test with me present proved otherwise.

4 weeks in, to make a statement about having to catch up is ludicrous, she's 4. X

We went through this with my son. He's very bright and eager to learn, and has great social skills. In play based learning (which here in Australia is pre-school and to a large extent the first year of primary school so 5-6 year olds) he was always one of the standout students and all his teachers raved about how well he was doing. Well that all changed his first year of full formal learning in the second year of primary school when he very quickly completely crashed and burned and ended up needing to be treated for anxiety. Before we figured out the anxiety his teacher was trying to tell me he needed to be assessed for a learning disorder and she all but said she thought he had a low IQ because he was doing so poorly and unable to do any of the classwork (I'm still angry about this). His performance had nothing to do with his ability or IQ, or any disorders, he was just paralyzed with anxiety and completely overwhelmed by all the instructions and rules and always felt he was getting it wrong, which very quickly spiralled into "I can't do any of this" and general misery and fear about school. To his teacher's credit, once she knew about his anxiety she did work with us to accommodate him being allowed to ask more questions and have things explained more than once, and have more time to do things. I still think it's beyond stupid and cruel for a 6 year old to be put in that situation though. We're out the other side now and he's doing well and school is "okay". At home he's so knowledgeable and creative and does his homework really easily but his reports are always very average so I guess school is just not going to be his thing. He's also at the younger end for his year.

We got told our DC couldn’t do a bunch of things at preschool, including that she had low phonological awareness… she has very obvious and INCREDIBLY high phonological awareness but was very bored and not engaged by the school so wouldn’t do the activities at school, when asked about it she told me straight away it was because they were really boring. Instead of asking her, school decided she has sensory processing problems and refused to consider it might be their approach. Moved schools and Jo problems. Definitely sounds like your DC’s teacher either hasn’t spent the time to understand what’s going on with your kid or doesn’t have the experience.

The teacher should not be a reception teacher, no being summer born is not an ‘excuse’ its a reason: . Its impossible for children a whole year younger than some of their peers to be at the same developmental level, i would make a complaint about the teacher, i had this once with my youngest she was older probably year one when they asked me for ‘ideas on how to get her to learn to read and write, i said ive no idea as she reads all the time at home and spends hours writing stories.

This is true to a point. But it often as a result of this takes longer to identify learning problems such as dyslexia in summer borns.

I don’t think you have anything to worry about if she can do all these things at home but she mustn’t be doing them at school for the teacher to say something, I’d just film them and show her she’s not behind so your both in agreement and go from there. If she isn’t ready to learn that’s possibly also why she’s in that group to encourage the learning so she doesn’t fall behind her peers and the gap doesn’t get bigger. Reception is majority about play and developing socially with peers but they do learn too and most want to….kids are like sponges they learn so fast, you don’t want your child to be left behind because she just wants to play when the rest are soaking every ounce of learning up.

I just wanted to add that I didn’t think my daughter was behind when she started reception. I was always told how ahead she was at nursery. It wasn’t until she got into reception it was made clear to me that she was ahead socially but behind academically. Nursery had always said she was a summer baby and just not ready to learn yet (they start phonics/ bits of maths learning in nursery).

Once in reception she was put in the intervention group and the class teacher said children were put in this group for extra support and to be kept a closer eye on….she said that some were possibly just in it as they were young and most would catch up by year 1 but others might not and there may be some SEN needing picking up. They often can’t formally diagnose for things like dyslexia till later on but they can put in the intervention much earlier so they do. That reception teacher was on the ball with my daughter in the first term, she was put in the intervention group, didn’t catch up as I’d hoped with her being summer born and turns out she’s dyslexic- the reception teacher had thought it from the first term but couldn’t say for certain as it was too early to say…by year 1 they were pretty certain and she was formally assessed and diagnosed age 7/8 (apparently that’s the earliest they’ll diagnose)….she has gone through the whole of primary school in the intervention group and I’m grateful for it, gets extra help where it’s needed, she’s never singled out, has so many friends, socially thriving, academically a little behind her class but improving at her own pace and doing well.

I would let the teacher do her best for your child at school and you continue to help her at home.

Also wanted to add, children can have extra intervention in certain areas and not in others so a child might excel in English but not maths and get some extra intervention there. Even they could be really good in maths but the teacher noticed they didn’t understand one particular area for example fractions and they could get some extra intervention to help them there. They don’t tend to be singled out or taken out of something especially fun to do the intervention and it would be worse if they didn’t get the extra help so it’s all positive really.

sorry for the long post I just wanted to say it’s not all bad to be in the intervention group or that she’s been boxed off forever

Same with my dd2. She was born abroad and we came back to England when she was just over 5. She had been to a pre school abroad but she wouldn't have started school there for another year at 6 plus. I hadn't taught her to read as we had lots of other fun things to do and she wasn't interested. She started in year 1 and I knew she was bright so thought she'd pick it up fairly easily. By Christmas she wasn't making any progress with reading and I asked her why she didn't like the books. She said they were boring! Anyway I decided to spend the Christmas holidays teaching her and she was away. By that Easter she was reading Harry Potter and she was put on the gifted and talented list for English and Maths. Being bored was a constant feature of her schooling, even at A level during her physics lessons she'd be reading a fiction book and doodling on her note book and she still got 100% (ums) in her physics exams. Cambridge was a bit of a shock to her though!

Why?
Rote counting with no understanding doesn’t demonstrate anything. it is typical for a 3 year old and so doesn’t evidence the child not being behind

in reception it isnt about simply counting but understanding the conservation of number etc

children who count at an early age ( thinking of in 2s to 100s at just 2) would raise a red flag

I did not say she could just count on rote.

she recognises numbers. The teacher said she didn’t. We disputed that.

she does know letters and sounds, but in all fairness we may have been teaching her the wrong sounds, as we didn’t know they were being taught synthetically.

I think saying a child is behind 4 weeks into a term at age 4 when really we should be interested in how she is settling is what we are disputing.

we will help her catch up and work with the teacher, but as others have pointed out, 30 in a class is a lot, and accurate assessment is a very short snapshot maybe not be as accurate as they’d like to think.

Is it an outstanding school? I sent my first child to an outstanding school and soon realised they were particularly preoccupied by maintaining their Ofsted results. I had similar meetings to the one you described. There was so much academic pressure from the first term so I moved mine to a different school which was good rather than outstanding much more nurturing and holistic. They did much better there, going from "interventions" to top sets.

I will say that nurseries sometimes have a tendency to ‘overestimate’ a child’s ability so it can be a shock for patents in reception (unless it is a school nursery and they work closely with reception).

Im a reception teacher and a parent. Try not to worry and no your daughter won’t be written off. I’ve got a child I was quite concerned about in week 2, we’ve been carrying out simple interventions interventions since and I’ve spoken to his parents about him practising his sounds at home and those two things together have made such a difference in a matter of weeks! Even better for me as I can focus on another child so no they don’t get written off we want the best for all children.

And for all the people who are so negative about our education system, it’s not negative for all children. My class are learning so much in a fun way, have so much time outside, formal learning is in short bursts.

Yet more trolling of schools. They are doing intervention. This is good. Why are you sad about this? People asking what they are doing. Literally- intervention.

Would 100% have rather that the teacher was honest, as they have been, than get to the end of the year and it become a shock to you. My son is also one of the youngest, almost a full year so than the others so I don’t expect him to be at the same standard. Sounds to me like you did and you are disappointed someone has pointed out that’s not the case

Hello, I’m a Reception teacher.

4 weeks in is way too early to be making these sort of statements, unless there is a clear need for intervention, e.g. an ASC assessment, speech and language delay that hasn’t been picked up.

When we have Parents’ Evening early into the school year, our main priority is to discuss how the child has settled in, whether they are making friends, being kind, listening and following the school rules and simple instructions.

The Autumn term of Reception focuses heavily on numbers 1-5, (think Series 1 and 2 of Numberblocks on iPlayer) so it’s a bit baffling that she’s complaining about a lack of number recognition etc when that’s basically her maths curriculum for Autumn term.

Your child will not be pigeon-holed forever, or in an intervention group forever. It sounds like she is soon going to settle in and cooperate and will make miraculous progress and they’ll realise their initial baseline assessment was wrong.

It used to be that you didn’t complete your baseline assessment until after 6 weeks, in order to give the teacher and child enough time to settle in and build a relationship.

For a start I thought most learning in reception was play based and we would t have this kind of pressure this early only 4 weeks into term and being told she is not matching up!

Not since they made every school have to buy into a DFE-approved phonics scheme I’m afraid! It’s a lot of pressure on the children and in my opinion is developmentally inappropriate, particularly for summer-born children.

That said, I would not be telling you at parents’ evening that your child is ‘behind’ 4 weeks into the term. Does this teacher have a strong background in EYFS teaching? They’re not supposed to recognise numbers yet, so even if she couldn’t that wouldn’t mean she was behind.

Intervention is not good at all if it is unnecessary and not age appropriate though? The fundamental idea of a 4 year old being 'behind' in maths after 4 weeks of school indicates a lack of understanding about child development? Not only is it highly unlikely they would be able to make an accurate judgement about this given the age of the child and how long they have been in school, it shows they are planning to force academic development beyond what is generally considered appropriate for their age? Why do this? What's the motivation? Children don't progress at the same rate at that age? It's totally ludicrous, and I'd move my child out of a school like this. There will likely be no harm, her child will progress as normal, but I wouldn't like their approach to learning at all. In Finland they don't even start school till 7 and they have some of the best outcomes overall. We are an outlier in starting children as early as 4.

I have to agree, I think people may have misunderstood my post, as I am hugely disappointed that my child is not top of the class with glowing reports. I however was thinking more along the lines that the conversation would be about how's she is doing and settling in, whether she is happy. I was quite astonished when we got to a big 'but..' She is struggling with learning, not retaining any information and doesn't know her sounds or numbers. We did dispute this because she can.

It is not so much that, I just more surprised we were having this conversation so soon, and this kind of judgement was happening so soon, its seems hugely inappropriate and far too soon. I thought there would t least be a term or half term to see how the children settled.

Not every summer child though are at a disadvantage!
I know plenty that are ahead of their peers, my family member with a child aged 4 is more advanced educationally than their sibling who’s 14 months older

Mother of summer born.

if they’re telling you she’s behind she is. They do not make that. Being able to count doesn’t mean you’ve grasped the concrete values.

Ask her what comes after 5. Does she have to count from 1.

show her 5 items. Ask her how many. Does she know.

ask her to count from 10-20. Can she do it or does start from 1.

Now imagine where they would be if they were the oldest in their class. It’s not about being behind always. It’s about the evidence fact that you’re benefitted if you’re older in the year.

I think that both you and the teacher are unnecessarily worried and that the teacher possibly dug her heels in a little in response to being challenged. She's not going to be pigeon holed for life. For what it's worth the teachers at first under estimated my daughter. She looks younger than her age and had a speech problem. I kept saying that she was more capable. Suddenly at the end of year SAT tests, she surprised them all by coming top in all her papers. Now she's in a special extension group. Ignore all the 'catching up' nonsense. Resist homework. Stick on Alphablocks and the numberblocks on the TV and let her unwind after school watching that for fun or KIDS123tv on YouTube. And read to her or with her. I wouldn't do anything formal with her. She's too young.

This isn’t the issue. She doesn’t just count, she knows numbers when she sees them, the teacher said she didn’t. She also said she couldn’t count. She can.

what was contradictory about the meeting was they are only supposed to recognise 5 numbers anyway. She knows a lot more than that. She actually loves counting and numbers. And no, I won’t just blindly accept what the teacher says I will challenge her. Because my observation is very different.

My issue isn’t even so much about her being behind, it’s more we are 4 weeks into a term with a 4 year old, and we are already having this conversation. It’s strikes come as too soon, I couldn’t agree with her observation completely. She has 30 kids on a class and she assessed my child probably in less than 3 minutes.

it is a tiny snapshot of my child and a huge assumption to make so soon. That’s my problem.