Told my 4 year old is behind at school

[dual90]

So yesterday we went to parents evening at my DD school. I kind of knew it wouldn’t be all that positive because a week before we had been invited into the school to view one of the classes. My DD was not her best that day, crying and clingy. I noticed she was being placed at the front of the class which I know isn’t a good sign! I come from an education background- so I’m well aware of certain words like ‘interventions’ etc.

My DD is one of the youngest in the class, so she’s on the bottom 5th age bracket as she is a summer baby. The teacher just seemed to focus on the negatives, but threw in she plays well and is happy! But then launched into she’s struggling with the learning and is not ‘retaining’ and information! I did challenge her on this as at home she makes all the sounds for phonics and recognition letters. She’s also been deemed as bright in nursery and counting to 20 since she was 2! She’s interested in numbers and counts a lot and she’s been doing this for a while. She then says she didn’t recognise numbers, again we challenged her on that too as she does recognise them at home. She seemed a little baffled and kept saying she was ‘behind her peers’.

For a start I thought most learning in reception was play based and we would t have this kind of pressure this early only 4 weeks into term and being told she is not matching up! I did say to the teacher that developmentally there is going to be huge differences in learning just by the sheer difference in age for some of the children, she firstly agreed with that then contradicted it by saying she has other kids the same age who are coping fine. But we still said she seems to be doing fine with these things when she’s at home. We also have no idea what it is she is supposed to be learning. She says she’s in a small ‘intervention’ group. I find this concerning that this is already happening and quite worried she will be pigeon holed straight away and this young age. She had never had a problem learning and nobody had flagged this before, in fact I’d say the opposite. Her speech is better than some children that are 2 years older than her. I had reservations about sending her this year anyway, I felt she may not be ready but she really wanted to go. I also am slightly dissolution ed with whole school system anyway, so for me it’s sadly confirmed many reservations I’ve had. I do not want her to be off as a 4 year old and she’s already had a very tough start in life.

The teacher says if she doesn’t catch up now the gap will get bigger, I found this a very negative thing to say. I know in other countries they don’t even start this stuff until 6 or 7? And they do just fine. But straight away the pressure is on. We will try and help her catch up, but just this morning after the teacher said she didn’t recognise numbers we nearly filmed her doing it as she recognised them all!! And she has done for a long time. I did point out to the teacher that she just doesn’t know the name of the game yet and that she needs to know these things, so it’s more immaturity than anything else.

any thoughts or advice

No child ever needs to know what the teacher says in a report to parents in YR. It’s guidance anyway. Plus the OP seems desperate to prove to the teacher that DD can do the school work! She thinks she’s bright and probably ahead. This might be more about being shocked when dc is looked at against other dc and is not quite what the OP thought. So she blames the system she was desperate to join by going out of catchment. Sounds highly competitive to me. She’s done work with DD at home and expected a better report based on that. It’s obviously shocking that other dc are apparently achieving more. If you truly believe play based learning is better, play at home.

All schools should state the curriculum. All should have a starting school handbook and have policies available. They might not have a reading meeting until later this term of course.

Also Dc do not develop along a straight line. They have leaps ahead and then slowing down. If they all were ahead and stayed ahead we would no doubt have every 18 year old capable of Oxbridge. We don’t. So summer borns can easily be doing very well in YR. Their 4 years are full of development. Some 5 year olds haven’t developed at the same pace. I’ve found the very bright and engaged tend to stay very bright. They do get places at the best unis. Some schools don’t see these Dc very often but interestingly in my DDs cohort of 60, 4 got places at Oxbridge. Of those, all got top marks or just below in our 11 plus. Most were obviously bright at 5 AND were all summer born! How did they do it? The mind boggles. Fortunately teachers noticed they were capable by assessment and set appropriate work. They didn’t assume they were automatically behind and needed yet more time to mature.

OP, this is exactly what I would say word for word. The PP saved me writing it. My daughter is 5 schooled in Spain, so I guess I have a different attitude because of that. It is actually pre-school as School with a big S starts at 6 years old. She does phonics and Maths of a kind and is doing really well. But she has her own curve, and at 3,4 and 5 this is very normal. My daughter is shyer at school but is growing in confidence and participating more. To have a system that is so driven by results about a 4 or 5 year old is really weird (and 4 weeks in!). I am sorry you have this, I can see your point and agree with it entirely.

This is kind of what I’m getting at. It’s a lot of pressure this soon, and I’m glad you’ve bought this up.

It would be fine if we were following the curve of the child, but this seems very rigid this early on. I am glad you’ve pointed this out, in other countries they don’t put this kind of emphasis this soon.

I am well aware we just have to do what we can with what we have.

I honestly do not know how necessary it was to personally attack my post. Yes, I do have a background in education. However, due to to many personal reasons I have not worked in that setting for a while.

I am not putting a huge emphasis on this, I am stating I am surprised our first parents evening, at most 5 weeks in - consisted of this type of conversation. I do understand that the teacher has targets to meet, it’s her job, her hands are tied. It is actually one of the reasons I decided to no longer work in education.

I have taken on board the advice given, some of the advice has been great, and it’s comforting others have had similar experiences. This helps.

I will help my daughter catch up, if she doesn’t. I may have to think of alternatives.

I would disagree with the teacher on this, @dual90 - children the same age can be at different stages. And while I can see that the teacher needs to tell you what level your dd is at right now, I also think that, because all children develop at different paces, she is going to catch up with her peers.

It sounds as if you are an involved and caring parent, and that you are doing a lot with your dd at home, to support her learning, and I am 100% sure this will mean she will catch up with the other kids, and that she will fulfil her potential.

One of my dses was barely talking at 2 years old - he had a vocabulary of under 35 words (and some of those were ones that we understood but that really didn't sound anything like the actual word). He not only caught up to his peers, but as a small boy, he could talk for hours (without hesitation, repetition or deviation) about his favourite topic - trains - and he ended up doing a Law degree, which is one where you have to be able to argue and discuss with great fluency.

So please don't worry - you are doing a great job as a parent, and I am sure the school and the teacher are doing a good job too - and your dd will flourish.

The EY curriculum is 2 years in length. So when they are in YR they are not just starting out. Schools with nurseries would have been assessing last year and nurseries will have been visited to see how they have assessed the Dc. YR Teachers often observe Dc at nursery before they start at school too. Some home visit. If your DD hadn’t been to any nursery setting it’s inevitable they will assess quickly. Cannot see the issue myself other than she’s not got the gold star you expected.

She has been to nursery. I’ve this many times. And she was assessed. No issues at all. The teacher saw her there and home visit,

Honestly. Grow up.

Hmm. I think you need to! Your posts are now saying your DDs bright and capable attributes were not recognized by the teacher. You then blame assessment. However she’s been assessed before. You blame her age. You blame where she sits in class. You blame the teacher. You also blame the school you chose. You didn’t have to go there. You blame all governments of the last few decades. So maybe you need to reflect on your choices and your expectations of DD and teachers. You might find it tough going otherwise.

I don’t think you need to attack people with differing views op! Anyway. I’m out as they say.

It sounds like if this is the school locally that has the 'best' reputation - it may be that their focus is very much on following processes and they have a system that works for them. I felt very much that our local 'outstanding' school would probably be like the one your daughter attends and it wasn't for me.
Now that you are there, there's probably a few things to consider before taking any drastic steps. Open a dialogue - I would prefer email as you can take your time - and ask for clarification after the parents evening of what you heard and can it be confirmed. That currently she is behind, requires special intervention and that the teacher is concerned if this isn't rectified soon she will always lag behind.
If its confirmed in writing then I would respond back with your points - you are surprised because it wasn't the feedback from nursery, you have evidence that its not the case at home. Then ask for the clear steps that the teacher will follow to bring her up to speed and what she expects on your side.
Give the school a chance and work with them on the way they approach things. It may not be what you expected but its best to have everything clearly documented, work cooperatively and if you still don't feel comfortable with their approach you have plenty of time to consider other options. I wouldn't make big decisions now - but I would be sad that its not quite the reception experience you would have liked for your little girl.

She plays well and is happy? Sounds like a win to me.

I had to check the date. She’s been in school for 5 weeks?

Don’t worry, OP. She sounds fine and with your support, she’ll fly.

If you are in education then you know what counting to 20 at the age of 2 might mean. Just 2 (unusual) or almost 3 (not unusual)

It is 0-5.

Home is her safe space so it makes learning easier. At school she is probably on fight, flight, freeze or fawn mode. A 4 year old is not supposed to sit for long periods! Learning should be done through play not written work. I'd be taking her out of school since she isn't of compulsory school age anyway. If I had anymore they wouldn't be going through the schooling system!

You have it to come it's a battle trying to get children educated to their potential without harming their confidence. It is a lot of pressure at that age. If this was a fool proof way of teaching children why don't we have more doctors, nurses, solicitors etc.

Just before dd3 started reception we had a home visit and we were told they were following the Jolly Phonics reading scheme so being the sort of person I am I bought a full set of Jolly Phonics resources - dvd, activity books, wall frieze, song book, puppets etc only to be told when she started they had changed schemes!! I can't remember what the scheme they used was called but I know I preferred Biff and Chip.

You can delay his start to reception until the following year. Look at the simmerborn guidance and speak to your local admissions authority.

Maybe the teacher is inexperienced, ask to speak to the senco and ask exactly what you've said here.

4 is tiny and no conclusions can be made so early on ( I have a 4 Yr old summer baby, am a teacher and senco). You're right to be "rattled" by this, I would be too. A very messy start to her school year, definitely speak to someone else.

I am a teacher and I find it very odd that your daughter’s teacher has said those things so early in the year. At this point, all we would want to see is that the children are settled and happy. There are occasions when a child has entered reception class and it is immediately obvious that they need SEN provisions due to behaviour, lack of focus, communication difficulties etc, but from what you describe of your daughter, it doesn’t sound like that applies to her. Could the teacher perhaps be new to the profession and is being overly cautious? Intervention isn’t a bad thing though! My daughter had speech and language intervention from nursery and is now thriving!

It is hard to hear. I have 4 children, one of whom was quite poorly in EYFS and ended up towards the bottom of the class. lots of worrying comments made and a lot of sleep lost. A couple of years later my child is steadily climbing back up. We’ve got a bit more work to do but I am now confident they will get there. Stay confident in your knowledge of your child and try to see interventions as a positive thing as much as it may hurt to watch. At the end of the day your child’s school is trying to help by giving them more focus and time x

Hello, my youngest is in reception. They are learning to use the toilet alone and how to flush it. How to use a knife and fork and where to put their plate after lunch. How to listen in class. Any phonics is in maximum 20 mins bursts between water table, dress up, play kitchen etc, but it is just treated as a game. Right now they are mainly learning how to act at school - that’s it. Your daughter’s school sounds very intense, with all the settling sessions at ours they’ve only been going to school for 2 weeks full time!

I’m a foundation phase teacher . I also have a 4 year old.
my son is in a small community school. His class is 3-7 year olds. My son doesn’t read letters, numbers or count to 20. They follow a play based curriculum and they follow the children’s interests and needs. His teachers tell me he is settling in well, and that they are focussed solely on building a positive attitude to being in school and learning, and they will get there with all the academic stuff.

it sounds, from what you describe that your child is in an ofsted outstanding / estyn excellent school. They probably have excellent inspection ratings and outstanding reputation and academic output. Parents want to send their kids there because of this.

the school probably doesn’t have a lot of children from disadvantaged backgrounds/ children with additional needs / children with differences etc ? (If this is true, that’s very telling)

the teacher telling you your child is ‘behind’ at this stage is a major red flag. I’d be taking my kid out and moving them to a school that has more of a reputation for being play based. There’s absolutely no reason for a child of 4 having that much pressure put on them 4 weeks into term. In fact, even on a child one or 2 years older.

having high expectations for children is a good thing, having unachievably high expectations can lead to self esteem issues.

This is just awful. I never ever say this (secondary state school teacher and parent) but I'd find another school. At 4 years old she is 'not retaining information' and 'behind her peers'?! Omg. At this age as long as they are happy and developing normally in a social and emotional sense that is more than enough. I deferred my children as 4 is too young imo, but the first stages should be learning through play anyway. I'm shocked at the approach here, I would find a new school.