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AIBU to ask class parents to withhold phones?

152 replies

SarahBcn · 30/07/2023 07:02

The recent news about UN advising against phones in schools and countries banning them in schools has made me want to take action! My dds primary doesn't allow phones in school, but I know that children do have them as I see them on them after school. Already she has said that a few in her class have them (she's in year 3).
I read about a town in Ireland where majority of parents agreed not to give their kids a phone until year 7 and it's worked. I want to suggest this on the parent's whatsapp group - how do you think they'll respond?

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redskytwonight · 30/07/2023 11:11

@homeforme the main reason my primary dc had phones (not smartphones) was for communication, so they coukd let me know where they were if e.g. they decided to go to a friend's house after school.

Two specific incudents that spring to mind where having a phone kept them safe.

  1. DD fell off her bike and hurt her leg to the point it was painful to walk on and her bike was also unusable. Having a phone meant she could ring me to pick her up rather than relying on a passerby to take pity on her (possibly not the best idea anyway)
  2. I was expecting DD to go to an after school club so planned to work late. However the club was cancelled and DD (aged 8) was just let out of school at the normal time. Older DS (aged 10) rang me to ask what she should do as at that age she didnt go home on her own. Yes, this one is absolutely on the school who didn't make sure that I'd been contacted before sending DD out of school on her own. But it happened and having access to a phone absolutely kept her safe.
Serena73 · 30/07/2023 11:18

liveforsummer · 30/07/2023 10:51

So you think an older child walking home alone needs a phone but a younger one should just manage without? That makes no sense.

Potentially because the journey to/from secondary school can be a lot further? Used to take my son almost an hour to get home rather than 10 mins from primary.

TheNineNine · 30/07/2023 11:24

*I'm not sure why you felt the need to jump on and have a go at me for asking others why they deme something safe?

I'm making no judgement here, just asking, perhaps you could do the same?*

I'm not jumping on you or having a go at you. Confused

liveforsummer · 30/07/2023 11:29

@Serena73 that's a massive generalisation. My DC's primary and high school are next door to each other. Dd has been walking home since primary 4 (yr 3) due to my work and is generally there Belford me so sometimes lets herself on She has a phone in order to be able to contact me during any of that time. She might decide to stay and play at the park with a friend, pop to the local shop or she might get home and find she's lost her key or although it's never happened, need to contact me in an emergency. I don't see why a younger child is less likely to need any of this than an older one

homeforme · 30/07/2023 11:30

TheNineNine · 30/07/2023 11:24

*I'm not sure why you felt the need to jump on and have a go at me for asking others why they deme something safe?

I'm making no judgement here, just asking, perhaps you could do the same?*

I'm not jumping on you or having a go at you. Confused

Erm...

How glorious, never trying to think for yourself. I'm imagining you on a chaise-long right now.

Really? What was the point of your post then, because it certainly wasn't to answer my question or add to the discussion.

If you don't think that's having a go at someone and making judgements you have a really big problem and an even shittier attitude.

BrunchMonster · 30/07/2023 11:31

People who say that we managed before to walk home without phones etc seem to forget that public phone boxes rarely exist now, many places don't have landlines, there is much less of a culture of passers-by or strangers feeling like they can help a child, there tends to be an assumption that people do have access to internet, so far fewer easily accessible train/bus timetables on platforms/stops, fewer announcements or signs communicating delays, fewer people at information desks/ticket offices to help, fewer clocks on display, fewer places to buy tickets or whatever with actual money etc.

I don't particularly think children need phones before year 6 or 7, but it's totally up to families to decide what works for them.

By Year 7, a lot does tend to happen by social media, and without it, children do end up missing out. Unless you can convince everyone to stop using it, that will happen. No, social media use isn't great and can lead to a lot of problems, but I think phones/app/internet is here to stay, so better to teach children how to manage it well - I don't think the genie is going to go back in the bottle. I would try to avoid it until Year 7 or 8 (or later, if the child isn't desperate for it) but I'd understand the desire to fit in socially. I think encouraging parents to consider delaying social media is one thing, but trying to get them to come to a collective agreement is interfering too much.

Serena73 · 30/07/2023 11:33

liveforsummer · 30/07/2023 11:29

@Serena73 that's a massive generalisation. My DC's primary and high school are next door to each other. Dd has been walking home since primary 4 (yr 3) due to my work and is generally there Belford me so sometimes lets herself on She has a phone in order to be able to contact me during any of that time. She might decide to stay and play at the park with a friend, pop to the local shop or she might get home and find she's lost her key or although it's never happened, need to contact me in an emergency. I don't see why a younger child is less likely to need any of this than an older one

Yes, I was just giving a possible reason. I mentioned earlier, my own child had a phone at primary for the same reasons you give - going to the park, basically 'disappearing' with friends. The distance thing was just our own experience.

BrunchMonster · 30/07/2023 11:34

And people aren't 'deeming' phones safe by saying that they feel it increases their child's safety to have one. It doesn't meant that there aren't issues with them, but if the situation means that a child being able to contact parents when needed avoids them needing to walk home alone when lost or left by friends or injured or whatever, why shouldn't they feel safer because of that?

I don't think anyone is saying that they are a 'must' for safety, either; they've made the decision that for their children in their situation, the benefits to safety of having the phone outweigh the disadvantages.

TeenDivided · 30/07/2023 11:37

Does any one think that in some ways having phones gives children less freedom?

In the 'old days' a parent might say 'be home by 5'. Now they say 'be home by 3.30 or phone/text to let me know where you are going and who with'.

Also problem solving. Surely now the first reaction to any problem is 'contact Mum' whereas before they would need to try to solve an issue themselves.

It makes kids safer but maybe less robust?

However it seems to me there's probably nothing wrong with having phones, it is the 'smart' but that tends to be the issue.

YarisKaris · 30/07/2023 11:40

What will this achieve exactly? Most schools I know of don't allow phones out during the day anyway and all the primaries I know make children hand their phones in and collect at the end of the day.

homeforme · 30/07/2023 11:54

@redskytwonight

Thank you, having a phone was definitely advantageous in those situations.

My eldest DCs never took phones to primary but I'm an absolute non rule breaker - not an ideal trait tbh and the younger doesn't go to school so it's a non issue.

Megifer · 30/07/2023 11:59

TeenDivided · 30/07/2023 11:37

Does any one think that in some ways having phones gives children less freedom?

In the 'old days' a parent might say 'be home by 5'. Now they say 'be home by 3.30 or phone/text to let me know where you are going and who with'.

Also problem solving. Surely now the first reaction to any problem is 'contact Mum' whereas before they would need to try to solve an issue themselves.

It makes kids safer but maybe less robust?

However it seems to me there's probably nothing wrong with having phones, it is the 'smart' but that tends to be the issue.

The old days were great weren't they? If a kid was attacked or robbed (rare) the police were actually interested, lots of bobbies on the beat or police cars driving about generally monitoring, other kids playing out in groups, SAHMs more prevalent so if there was a problem you'd just go to Sarah's mums down the road whod then phone your mum, less kids getting their trainers robbed (big problem round here for reasons irrelevant to this thread), kids being approached by dodgy characters less prevalent (also for reasons irrelevant to the thread but happens daily round here), more youth clubs, less ridiculously fast cars driven by dicks on the road. Less gangs made up of 11 year olds.....bus terminals with desks you could ask a human what bus you need to get to XYZ if you're lost....i could go on.

Generally I think it was much safer back then. If my DCs didn't have a phone they wouldn't have half the freedom they have now. I certainly wouldn't want my DC to try and work out what bus to get home if they get lost or how to get home with no trainers and a busted up face 😬

LolaSmiles · 30/07/2023 12:12

Am also a teacher and see everyday the effect smartphones have on my pupils in terms of attention, behaviour, lack of sleep, children being exposed to things they shouldn't, safeguarding, bullying etc
My experiences are similar and that's why I'm cautious about individual device use and smartphones for children.

The pastoral load in schools includes social media and phones far more than many people outside of schools realise.

JenniferBarkley · 30/07/2023 12:47

Good point about medical needs, hadn't occurred to me but our eldest has epipens so as soon as she is going anywhere independently I'll want her to have a phone. Both in case of emergency or so she can phone us asap if she's lost her meds (which will doubtless happen, because kids).

DelphiniumBlue · 30/07/2023 13:05

In case it helps anyone, by year 6 in my ( London primary) school a majority of the children walk home alone. About half of those have a phone( that we know about) and not all of those are smart phones.
In year 5 it's about 15-20%, which is less than half of those walking home alone. Might be useful to know if you are dealing with the " but everyone has got one" argument.

drunkpeacock · 30/07/2023 16:30

I read about a town in Ireland where majority of parents agreed not to give their kids a phone until year 7 and it's worked

In what sense has it "worked" though? What has been gained over what has been lost and how has this been measured.

I think it's a bit of a knee jerk reaction to say phones = bad do no phones = good.

My Ds (almost 11) doesn't have one yet but at the point where he starts going to places alone, walking from A to B without an adult or staying at home alone for longer than a few minutes here and there then he will get a phone, for safety reasons.

If a well intentioned parent tried to persuade my school to "ban" this without robust justification then I wouldn't be supportive.

I sometimes think that banning stuff is the easy way out when what is really needed is education for parents and children about making screen use as safe and non-intrusive for young people. That's harder but also more valuable.

dontdoitagain · 30/07/2023 17:36

I wouldn't give my child a phone until secondary school or if they were walking home alone towards the end of their primary school years.

I wouldn't give them a smart phone for a number of reasons. Not just social media.

I know some people feel it's safer for their kids to have a phone, but my friend's ten year old son got attacked and had his smart phone stolen.

An older style phone that just sends texts and makes and receives calls is enough. Nobody will be in a great rush to steal it!

Snowtrails · 30/07/2023 17:48

An older style phone that just sends texts and makes and receives calls is enough. Nobody will be in a great rush to steal it!

Yes and that's all you need to be able to contact someone if you get into trouble walking home from school.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 30/07/2023 17:53

Snowtrails · 30/07/2023 17:48

An older style phone that just sends texts and makes and receives calls is enough. Nobody will be in a great rush to steal it!

Yes and that's all you need to be able to contact someone if you get into trouble walking home from school.

How many people have these though? Surely most parents of year 6s said goodbye to "dumb" phones in their late teens to mid 20s? Whose hanging on to their old Nokia 8210s to pass on to their kids?

You certainly can't buy dumb phones new.

TeenDivided · 30/07/2023 18:02

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 30/07/2023 17:53

How many people have these though? Surely most parents of year 6s said goodbye to "dumb" phones in their late teens to mid 20s? Whose hanging on to their old Nokia 8210s to pass on to their kids?

You certainly can't buy dumb phones new.

Something like this? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nokia-Single-Mobile-Phone-2017-Black/dp/B074PZBQZS/ref=asc_df_B074PZBQZS/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=311081482938&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18382024556688452659&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007024&hvtargid=pla-417894704058&th=1
Only £18.

Ponderingwindow · 30/07/2023 18:07

We had very particular reasons for giving our child a phone at a young age. It was extremely locked down and supervised.

I would have ignored any requests to wait because you would have been too late anyway. Besides, her therapists and her psychiatrist didn’t have a problem with it, so I’m not going to really be concerned with how other parents feel about our families screen policies.

Qilin · 30/07/2023 18:31

Thelastwaltz · 30/07/2023 08:49

Kids under 11 don't need Smartphones with internet access IMO.

A Doro or other cheap pay-as-you-go is good enough in case of emergency.

But why pay anything for a new phone if you have a 2 year old smartphone you already own they can have which will cost you nothing?
That's what a lot of the parents I know did. So lots had 2-3 year old smartphones which were their parents old phone when they upgraded.

TeenDivided · 30/07/2023 18:36

Qilin · 30/07/2023 18:31

But why pay anything for a new phone if you have a 2 year old smartphone you already own they can have which will cost you nothing?
That's what a lot of the parents I know did. So lots had 2-3 year old smartphones which were their parents old phone when they upgraded.

The reasoning is it gives kids access to a lot of features that are inappropriate for their age. So better to spend £20 on something more suitable. If you want them to have a phone for safety, then a £20 unsmart is better. Plus if they lose it you've only lost £20 not however much a 2yr old phone would get for resale.

MargaretThursday · 30/07/2023 19:18

In the 'old days' a parent might say 'be home by 5'. Now they say 'be home by 3.30 or phone/text to let me know where you are going and who with'.

I don't see what this is meant to be less freedom, unless you're implying that with mobile phones they're asked to be home sooner.

With my dc, I'll say "be home by 5 or contact me." That way they're with their friends, just started a film and they don't have to run home and ask, they send a text "Watching film at Jack's. Home 7. Ok?" And I text back "ok" or if there's a reason why they need to be home then "no, home now.".

I was a child in the 80s and dm would have always expected to know who I was with and where we were. It meant if the group decided they'd go to someone else's house, I had to go home, whereas now I could have sent a text saying "going to Emily's".

Deloresadores · 30/07/2023 19:22

My dd had to walk home alone everyday when she was in year 6 so I’d tell you no. Her older siblings would be on their way home but just in case she needed a phone.
Loads of year 6 kids I teach walk home to empty houses I think phones help parents feel like they are safer.