Atheist in Roman Catholic Primary - experiences sought, please.

[ScaredHeart]

We have relocated and been advised that our two options going in at this stage to Year 3 are the Roman Catholic school, which is a very quick walk from home, or the no-religion school which is over an hour's walk away (traffic dire at peak times, I don't want to drive anyway). We could home ed in the hope that a closer non-religious school comes up for September - the LA says there is often movement at this stage in this borough.
DD is happy to see out this term home edded, as am I, but equally, ok to start if a preferred place is offered.

I am vehemently atheist. I cannot stand the religious imposition in schools. But the prospect of a short walk every day, Vs a very very long one, are giving me pause. I'd like for DD to make local friends, not ones who live over an hour's walk away, or further.

I wonder how seriously pushy most Catholic primaries are in this regard. Atheist patents with any experience or views? We will not go to church. I don't want DD being told god is real. (Unless during now and then, proof materialises.)

Other considerations.
RC school is one-form entry.
Non-religious one with current space is SIX-form entry.
Non-religious one with no space but may have space in September is four-form.
Would you pick the tiny RC school or the much bigger ones, if you had the choice?

And that is a perfectly reasonable position if there is a genuine choice.

Unfortunately local government in the Uk is strapped for cash and doesn’t have enough money to provide a huge choice of schools in every area who that everyone can have a school near them that caters to their own ideological or philosophical preferences. “ Genuine choice “ is lovely as long as you don’t expect others to pay for it.

Everyone who uses public services in the Uk has to make compromises . Many people would love to live in the country but they can’t because rural areas don’t have the health or social care that they need.

If you want, for example, a Jewish or Muslim school for your children you will have to move to an area which already has one. You would be foolish to set up home in some area where there is a low percentage of people of your faith and then complain that there is no choice. Of course there us a choice - parents only have to educate their children, they don’t have to go to that school or any school.

It’s crazy too move to a small island in the UK with no local high school and then complain that you have no choice . Or that the local primary school isn’t ‘ diverse ‘ enough for you or doesn’t teach Mandarin.

Id love to have a large maternity hospital near me so I don’t have to travel to the nearest city, It’s so unfair . I can demand all I like that the NHS build one near me so I have choice, but it’s not going to happen.

Er...the OP is in a densely populated part of the UK's largest city!

Phineyj- I think the FLO is just trying to say there is always a choice, even in uk's largest city. OP does have other choices if she really felt very strongly against the said school. she could carry on home schooling, to travel to the other school that is 2 miles away (not really a huge distance in London with all the transport links) be on a wait list and realistically, I think she'll get a place by September (There is always lots of movement in London rather compared to outside of London) OP did make a choice to homeschool and this would be a complete different outcome if this was a reception, on time application. It's just unfortunate she is an in year application so that her choice would be more limited now, just like anyone else making a in year application.

obviously we do not know OP personal life and HE might not be possible now but if I were her I'd probably continue HE till a space became available. If this really wasn't possible, do the 1 term at said school and hopefully another becomes available in September or whenever that time is. Wish OP all the best with it. I really hope she gets the best outcome.

I have just realised that there’s a direct bus between the non-faith school that the OP has been offered, and her bit of town. Takes about 20 mins, so not a bad journey at all.

You could consider the good they do too. Many of the community initiatives and charities we know of and support are religious. - well yes, we all know this and could counter it by listing all the evils associated with religion which are sickeningly numerous: the crusades, religious wars, religious repression (of castes and of women), sexual abuse of power within many religions etc. etc. ad nauseam. Just because sometimes religions lift their heads up from their doctrines and do some good in the community does not mean that parents want their children learning beliefs against their wishes.

Unfortunately local government in the Uk is strapped for cash and doesn’t have enough money to provide a huge choice of schools in every area who that everyone can have a school near them that caters to their own ideological or philosophical preferences. “ Genuine choice “ is lovely as long as you don’t expect others to pay for it. The solution is very simply - allow religions to be taught in schools - without that we would not be able to understand history or art - but do not allow state-funded religious schools. There is no need at all to fund religious schools and the LA's lack of cash is irrelevant. Religious teaching is for the home and the place of worship - it is not for general consumption by all at school regardless of parental wishes and morality.

I am CoG at a primary school that is non-aligned. The children learn about all religions. And they also learn about values - it is a value-led school where kindness is their religion!

@Phineyj , not sure what that comment means. What are each's aims?

How do I go about speaking with other parents?

Definitely not my experience re the talk on abortion (c1990) at the Catholic school I went to. Not an issue on that topic for DD at the age she is, though.
Also big on scaring us to do the right thing under threat of hell. Argh.
There was also no mention of other religions. I don't remember knowing there even were other religions at primary school, nor that some people didn't believe in God.

Good people do good things. They don't need religion to do so.

My own primary is a bit too far to commute to, but I just checked it out online. Would be kinda sweet to visit it now. Still has the same uniform (but not the scary nun headmistress).

I can home ed for a while longer, like September, but there are a few reasons that have made it not the top choice for my family at this stage. Primarily financial.

And while 2miles is of course doable, it's still a chore of a commute, going to deplete my finances Vs an easier walk, reduce my time available to work, impact how early DD will have to get up in the morning, and get home, and limit availability of local friends, etc etc.
I think we should all be able to walk to school within 20 minutes, unless maybe you live in the Outer Hebrides, but I love in a densely populated area in Greater London/Surrey. If the little local primary weren't religious, it sounds perfect for us.

I do think we may get a spot at the primary school 20 minutes away in September, but I need to be prepared if not. I need to do what's best for DD as well as my other child (namely, my finances, it's just a real struggle trying to balance home ed/my earning capacity now, and being able to afford to live, basically). I feel like we will get a feeling about the school and staff next week, and have a good think. I can carry on home ed this term if need be, and see what's what for September.

Thank you for your kind wishes.

👍👏

I don't want to derail your thread any more OP (!) but the religions presumably want to spread their values and express their values through providing the education, whereas state education is there to provide an educated workforce and to give children something productive to do (as mass state education arose from the industrial revolution when suddenly parents were going into a workplace). Those are quite different aims and objectives, wouldn't you say?

Yes, I thought that's what you were getting at, but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything in particular. They do still have to cover the core subjects, and somehow seem to still thrive educationally, right? But yes, to me, a) that religious stuff is a waste of time and b) I don't appreciate them filling my kid's head with stuff that I don't agree with.

Interesting thread. I am an atheist and my 3 young kids (younger than your DD) are in Catholic school. I am abroad though and most of the highly rated schools here are Catholic, so I didn't have many secular options.

My kids do prayers each morning and there's a chapel service once a term or so (the school has its own chapel!), plus they have a little book they work through of simplified Bible stories. I did nearly fall off my chair when I matriculated the eldest and was asked for 15 euros for his "religious awakening" book

But - I have to say day to day the religious element doesn't bother me. I just don't think it has the same impact without parents reinforcing it outside school. Jesus is just another story to my children, and if they ask me about heaven for example, I can honestly say that no one knows for sure. Otherwise it's a lovely, kind and caring school with a real focus on the individual. I don't go to the chapel services and no one has said anything. I know first communion is not compulsory and I won't be letting my kids do that. I think my red line is joining/ signing up to religion as a child: that's a decision they can make as an adult. But learning about it (especially as it's a big part of the culture here) and instilling the broader values of kindness, care for others etc, I am fine with.

I'm in a similar position to you although round here a school with 30 per year would be considered big! Similarly weighing up the pros and cons of the RC aspect

But bear in mind that without the religion, the lovely small school wouldn't exist - it's not the case that the school would be exactly the same minus the religion. More likely the 4 form school would be a 5 form school. In my area the other schools would each have an extra 3 or 4 pupils per year.

There's a lot of talk about first holy communion and not allowing your children to participate (which of course I understand) but in case anyone didn't know, your children would not be allowed to make their communions anyway. Only baptised children can then go on to make their reconciliations and communions. It's a holy sacrament and can only come after baptism so no need to worry that it will be forced on them.

If the Jewish school is a state school, it must accept anyone who applies if it is undersubscribed. It can prioritise Jewish applicants (as the majority of Catholic schools prioritise Catholics), but if it has spaces left over after this then they must be offered to any non-Jewish applicants.

I don’t think the RC school is for you, you aren’t just ambivalent to the religion you are very much against it. They don’t have a duty to provide your child a religion free school career, they have a obligation to provide a religion based education to the parents who have enrolled agreeing to this.
You can’t expect anything different and I feel you would be very unhappy with this school experience for your child.

I’m reading this thread with interest.

Sorry to hijack - but DS has ASD, and due to his needs we are considering sending him to our nearest RC school as it is a small school. He would only get in with an EHCP as it is usually 100% Catholic only.
I don’t think DS will have any real understanding of religion due to his needs, yalthough this may change as he gets older. I don’t know how the other parents would view me as it’s so strongly Catholic. We would be the only non-Catholic in the class.

I’d be interested to hear any views!

You need to check the school out, @ScaredHeart- they vary a lot in the level of Catholicism on a day to day basis.

I'm fine with them learning about religions. ALL religions, equally. I accept with live in a society where xtianity is the dominant religion and has been for a while, but I don't want it presented as better than the others.

Bible stories, hm. Obviously Noah is a big one. I hated that. The thought of all those people perishing, apart from one family. And all those animals. I think that's actually a horrific story, yet it's wrapped up to children as something wonderful.

I'm obviously good with instilling values of kindness, etc, but that can be done in any school, and hopefully I've done it already anyway.

Yes, possibly, it would not be there. So the school 20 minutes away would therefore have space, and we could just go there. Or there might be two smaller schools.

All true. But I don't think a long commute is for us either, and possibly, the RC school would be the lesser of two evils, excuse the terminology!!!