Is this a normal thing to happen in Reception? (disruptive boy given extra attention) long-ish post

[imaginaryfriend]

I'm going to try to get this in a nutshell but it's quite complicated.

Dd's in Reception with a little boy, I'll call him 'Z' just to make things briefer. Z is a reasonably high achieving boy, he's in the 'top' group at the moment along with dd and 4 other girls, all at roughly the same level (I do parent reading with them once a week so I'm fairly confident about this). Z is an extremely disruptive boy despite being very bright, he's taken up to the Headmaster many times, sent into the 'buddy room', up and down the behaviour ladder. He does some pretty unpleasant things like telling the Muslim girl in the same group that all Muslims are going to go to Hell, telling a physically disabled boy that his built up shoes look 'stupid' and that because he's in a wheelchair he's going to die early. The list is as long as my arm. Dd's always coming home with new tales and Z's frequently the topic of upset for many of the mums whose kids have been physically hurt by him.

So he's a difficult character. The teacher has been giving him one-on-one time for 30 minutes after lunch to 'extend' his literacy and numeracy, a luxury that none of the other children get. Dd, for instance, has had one-on-one reading time with the teacher only once since starting in September when her parent reader was off sick. Z's mum says this is because his behaviour is so bad because he's not challenged enough and he 'plays tricks on people' when he's bored. She believes he's extremely gifted and the school isn't meeting the challenge of his intellect. She has frequent meetings with the teacher to discuss what they can do to give him more yet so far I don't see any change in his behaviour at all.

I, and a number of other mums, are beginning to feel a bit miffed that he gets so much attention when his behaviour is so appalling and that our own children get so little in comparison and I wondered if the teacher's decision to give him this extra tuition was a typical move with a disruptive but bright child. And if so, is it known to work?

I've been wondering whether to see the headmaster about the situation, especially given that dd's parent reader has been away for the last 2 weeks so dd hasn't read to anybody at all for 3 weeks now apart from the group guided reading sessions she does once a week. It seems unfair that the teacher can find 30 minutes once a day for one child and leave others with no time at all for weeks on end.

From what I can gather this is the teacher's first class as she's only just qualified as a teacher.

What would you do? Grin and bear it or go and speak to someone?

Z's mum is very 'pushy', she turns a blind eye to his behaviour problems and is genuinely convinced that it's the school's fault for not keeping him challenged. She said to me the other day that she 'doesn't rate' the teacher. I mentioned that she's getting quite a good deal, especially when there are some children who barely speak English (I listen to the lowest achieving group read and I really feel they could do with the teacher's direction rather than my completely unqualified one) who get no time with the teacher.

It seems to me to be a rather sad condition of our times that the worst behaved child gets the best and the quieter ones who are just getting on with school and doing their best are penalised.

Help me put this in perspective? I've made an appointment to see the teacher next Wednesday and I'd like to go in and say everything in a fair but clear way.

[hippipotami]

Absolutely brilliant IF, it sounds like the teacher is really on the ball, adn dd has not gone un-noticed!

Well done, and I am very pleased for you

[SlartyBartFast]

they're notdaft these teachers!

[LadyMuck]

Well, sounds as if you were right to be concerned. I find it bizarre that anyone would do one to one in reception - there are so many things to be ticked off on the Foundation Stage Profile that soaring ahead on numeracy would be odd imo. I wonder if she was manoeuvred into doing so by Z's mum?

In terms of your own dd, I think that it sounds quite good overall. She is obviously doing well at this stage, and should be given the opportunity for extension in a sensible way. Also the teacher seems on board with the concerns over her confidence, and I think that you can now definitely follow this up with a quiet word later in term to see if things have changed.

Whilst I think that the outcome is good for you dd, I think that I would still have reservations over how this experiment was managed, as it strikes me as odd that an NQT could do something so intensive off her own bat. But those are more difficult questions to ask I guess.

[Heated]

Excellent! It seems likely that your conversation with dd's teacher will have crystallized her own thinking (re Z) and raised your own dd's profile with her. Give it a few weeks to turn around but looking good!

[TotalChaos]

Glad the meeting went so well IF. I agree with Ladymuck. It does look like your suspicions were right, and that it wasn't a case of suspected SN leading to the extra 1-1 time.

[stuffitllama]

Am so pleased for you
Sounds like you kept up well and were v v on the ball, very pleased for you, sounds like she's trying to work things out herself. Really good that you went in though. She knows that in the nicest poss way you are watching how things go. And guided reading isn't the same as one-to-one, I would still say more is better but her time issues seem considerable. I hope she manages to notice dd a bit more, as that's not all that time-consuming and can make such a difference. All the best and hope you don't have to post on it again!

[dippydeedoo]

well done I.F the best outcome you could have hoped for i think .

[2shoeswithheartson]

welll done sounds like a positive outcome

[imaginaryfriend]

Thanks everyone.

Yes, I'm not that sure still about the 30 mins a day with Z. I suspect that she may have been bullied into it by Z's mum but as someone else said, she surely wouldn't be able to do that without getting an ok from someone higher up?

[Hallgerda]

Depends, imaginaryfriend. If the senior management team is distracted by other issues, e.g. building works, NQTs may be getting rather more autonomy than under normal circumstances. (I've had to go and talk to DS2's Head Teacher about the strange behaviour of the NQT in his class recently).

DS1, who was reading chapter books at the start of reception, got some 1-1 time with a classroom assistant - not with the class teacher - when he was in Reception. I think it was more along the lines of giving him something separate from the rest of the class but broadly leaving him to get on with it after a short explanation. It was done in a way that didn't get all the other parents' backs up, and I didn't press for it. It strikes me that something similar could have been done for Z. Not your problem though!

I'm glad to hear your meeting went well.

[Miggsie]

Excellent news IF, sounds like the teacher is completely aware of the "Z" effect and has her own little strategy to get back with the other children in a more engaged way. If "Z" is as you say those 30 mins can't be much fun for her either.

If she's really canny she'll tell "Z's" mum to get him extra tutoring at home, thus removing her enforced 30 mins with him.

Lets hope the other children respond to the new group and it can be seen that several children are getting additional attention and recognition, that should boost overall class morale too!

[wheresthehamster]

Was it confirmed it was 30 minutes? If the other children were doing carpet time I don't think they would sit still for that long! I'm surprised it was the teacher though not the TA doing this.

One-to-one reading is something all parents (me included) get hung up on. The group guided reading session, daily shared reading and phonics is where reading is taught and assessed. One-to-one reading is good but only the same as what you do at home.

Hope you feel better now IF - sounds as if you have more confidence in the teacher now. What did she say about the reading books not getting changed?

[imaginaryfriend]

Well I find it strange it's the teacher and not the TA doing the work with Z. Especially as she said the other sessions she's planning for small groups after half term will be with the TA.

I think Z's mum has quite a lot of influence in the school, she seems to know everyone and is always in a meeting somewhere or other and she's always talking to dd's teacher animatedly.

But I'm not going to worry about Z now. That's her problem!

And yes, wheresthehamster, they do spend 30 mins doing carpet time after lunch. I was surprised when I saw the time table too. They have 30 mins in the morning for literacy, then a 1.5 hour break to play, then 30 mins again before lunch and 30 mins after lunch. It's quite a lot of sitting still isn't it? But it seems to be working as dd's learnt such a lot since September.

[LadyMuck]

When I've observed carpet time at our school, whilst they may be on the carpet for 30 minutes, they've done a huge range of activities within that time touching all sorts of areas of the curriculum, so whilst it might sound like a long time to "sit still" in practice they may have been coutning out together, singing a song, listening to a story, passing a bear around and taking turns to talk about something etc etc.

Also there are TAs and TAs. if the teacher is an NQT then it is likely that the TA is far more experienced, and also qualified at teaching this age group. Obviously the teacher retains all the responsibility for curriculum, assessing and monitoring and setting targets etc, but in terms of delivering a planned lesson I think that the TAs that I've seen at the dcs school are just as competent as the teachers. But that is only my experience at one school!

[imaginaryfriend]

You might be right LM. The TA looks old enough to be the teacher's mum! The TA is actually a much more approachable and friendly person, the teacher is quite defensive and difficult to approach, she seems to go for being efficient but rather chilly. So I'm completely happy for dd to spend more time with the TA than the teacher. In fact now I think of it the TA has said a few really nice positive things about dd whereas the teacher never has.

[stuffitllama]

TAs are great. I bet the TA knows EXACTLY what's going on and has her own private opinions about it.

[neolara]

Well done for sorting it all out IF - and also for handling the flack you got in the course of this thread. I worked in education for ten years or so and I know it is completely possible for pushy parents to yell hard and loud and get lots of support for their child. The knock on effect can be that other, equally deserving, children in the class can have less time and resources spent on them and that sometimes just does not seem fair. I thought you had a very reasonable concern.

You might be interested to read a book called "Queen Bee Moms and Kingpin Dads: Dealing with the difficult parents in your child's life" by Rosalind Wiseman. Z's mum sounds like she might be a classic case of "Queen Bee Mom".

"Queen Bee Moms appear to have perfect lives. They're often very charming, and they really, really like being in charge. They're often coaches, class parents, or heads of the PTA. The hallmark of a Queen Bee Mom isn't that she's in a leadership position (not all class parents are Queen Bees); it's that she has to be in control. Here are some other telltale signs:

• She organizes her child's social activities 24/7; no free time allowed.

• If other parents don't like her, "that's because they're jealous."

• If someone else is in charge of something, it's because the Queen Bee Mom has explicitly permitted it, and even then, whatever "it" is, it has to be done her way.

• She's skilled at telling confidential sad/bad stories about another parent, child, or teacher -- but she doesn't see this as gossiping. She shares the hard-luck story with the understanding that the person in question should be pitied, but her not-so-hidden message is that the person is pathetic, incompetent, or a social liability.

• When she or her child includes you or your child, you feel special. On the other hand, if you or your child has a run-in with her or her child, your dread of dealing with the situation propels you right back to junior high.

• She's a believer in the "let's let the kids work it out" parenting philosophy -- until it's her kid who's being wronged.

• She won't apologize for her child's behavior. She sees other children as overly sensitive.

• If she or her child does apologize for something, they expect a return apology: "Well, I'm so sorry that you took it the wrong way."

Queen Bee Moms aren't dangerous to you or your child as long as you don't challenge them. They're often their own worst enemy, though, because they can't admit when they need help or feel overwhelmed."

From Queen Bee Moms & Kingpin Dads, by Rosalind Wiseman with Elizabeth Rapoport. Copyright © 2006 by Rosalind Wiseman. Published by Crown Publishers, a division of Random House, Inc.

Great book! There are lots of tips about how to deal with difficult parents / situations. It's very American, but completely fascinating.

[neolara]

Well done for sorting it all out IF - and also for handling the flack you got in the course of this thread. I worked in education for ten years or so and I know it is completely possible for pushy parents to yell hard and loud and get lots of support for their child. The knock on effect can be that other, equally deserving, children in the class can have less time and resources spent on them and that sometimes just does not seem fair. I thought you had a very reasonable concern.

You might be interested to read a book called "Queen Bee Moms and Kingpin Dads: Dealing with the difficult parents in your child's life" by Rosalind Wiseman. Z's mum sounds like she might be a classic case of "Queen Bee Mom".

"Queen Bee Moms appear to have perfect lives. They're often very charming, and they really, really like being in charge. They're often coaches, class parents, or heads of the PTA. The hallmark of a Queen Bee Mom isn't that she's in a leadership position (not all class parents are Queen Bees); it's that she has to be in control. Here are some other telltale signs:

• She organizes her child's social activities 24/7; no free time allowed.

• If other parents don't like her, "that's because they're jealous."

• If someone else is in charge of something, it's because the Queen Bee Mom has explicitly permitted it, and even then, whatever "it" is, it has to be done her way.

• She's skilled at telling confidential sad/bad stories about another parent, child, or teacher -- but she doesn't see this as gossiping. She shares the hard-luck story with the understanding that the person in question should be pitied, but her not-so-hidden message is that the person is pathetic, incompetent, or a social liability.

• When she or her child includes you or your child, you feel special. On the other hand, if you or your child has a run-in with her or her child, your dread of dealing with the situation propels you right back to junior high.

• She's a believer in the "let's let the kids work it out" parenting philosophy -- until it's her kid who's being wronged.

• She won't apologize for her child's behavior. She sees other children as overly sensitive.

• If she or her child does apologize for something, they expect a return apology: "Well, I'm so sorry that you took it the wrong way."

Queen Bee Moms aren't dangerous to you or your child as long as you don't challenge them. They're often their own worst enemy, though, because they can't admit when they need help or feel overwhelmed."

From Queen Bee Moms & Kingpin Dads, by Rosalind Wiseman with Elizabeth Rapoport. Copyright © 2006 by Rosalind Wiseman. Published by Crown Publishers, a division of Random House, Inc.

Great book! There are lots of tips about how to deal with difficult parents / situations. It's very American, but completely fascinating.

[neolara]

Oops. Sorry for posting twice!

[imaginaryfriend]

I actually can't believe how accurate that is! Every single point on there sums up Z's mum. Especially the parts in which if someone else has a problem it's their fault - over-sensitive kids / bad parenting. But if there's a problem with Z it's still always someone else's problem. Wow ... I'm tempted to read the book but it would wind me up and I'm convinced that the amount of attention that Z and his mum command is part of the problem. I think they need to muck in a bit more and be like everyone else. He has such an elevated sense of himself which is continually re-inforced by everyone around him. Even me doing this is giving too much attention! help!

[alfiesbabe]

neolara - that sums these people up perfectly! The only other thing I'd add is that these mothers are the ones who will end up lonely and frustrated, because having lived their lives through their trophy sons and daughters, once their children finally grow up and leave home, the mother will realise they have achieved absolutely nothing on their own account.

[Miggsie]

...the worst one is when the mama in question ascribes amazing qualities to her offspring that they just DON'T have.
And what happens when they don't get that girlfriend or job they wanted? I know of one mother and I swear she's going to wade in on his first date and slap the girl if she doesn't kiss him or upsets him in any way.
I said to her once, are you going to sit in on his job interviews and shout at the people if they don't employ him? That was the level of control she wanted!
She calmed down a bit after that but she had to make sure everything was "right" for him all the time, which included intimidating other parents.
One advantage of these types is they have no sense of humour and so don't notice if you ever so subtly take the mickey out of them in parents discussions etc...

[BellaDonna79]

urgh, I had a run in with a mother like z's a few months back, while her dc was bright mine was brighter and boy did she resent this big time. We had her spreading gossip like wildfire including telling all other parents that my dd had been held back a year and that was why she was doing so well... Well after me and my dh told her in no uncertain terms to back off now or else (took me about a monthto brew up the courage though, she's older than my mother!) she has been behaving herself, is loudly pondering sending her dc somewhere which will stretch them more though, made a lot of people laugh as our children are at one of the pushiest schools in London, I don't know where she thinks will stretch her more?!?!?

[imaginaryfriend]

BD, that sounds awful! Z's mum seems slightly 'blind' to the other children who are doing well. I noticed when they put some work up in the hall recently she said to me 'did you notice that Z's writing was way ahead of the others?' in a conspiratorial whisper. I replied that I thought a few of the girls also had excellent writing (in fact it was much better) but she dismissed that and said they'd probably had help from the teacher!!!!!

[BellaDonna79]

It was! but like you once I had the courage to stand up for myself and my DCs it got a lot better, I think (however hard it might be) we just have to learn to laugh at these women and do all we can for our own children.
(I proved dd's DOB by having her teacher have her bring in her American passport for a project on the USA, sneaky I know but soooooo worth it)
I hope things improve even more for you for everyone's sake, including Z really