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Primary education

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Is this a normal thing to happen in Reception? (disruptive boy given extra attention) long-ish post

344 replies

imaginaryfriend · 09/02/2008 21:49

I'm going to try to get this in a nutshell but it's quite complicated.

Dd's in Reception with a little boy, I'll call him 'Z' just to make things briefer. Z is a reasonably high achieving boy, he's in the 'top' group at the moment along with dd and 4 other girls, all at roughly the same level (I do parent reading with them once a week so I'm fairly confident about this). Z is an extremely disruptive boy despite being very bright, he's taken up to the Headmaster many times, sent into the 'buddy room', up and down the behaviour ladder. He does some pretty unpleasant things like telling the Muslim girl in the same group that all Muslims are going to go to Hell, telling a physically disabled boy that his built up shoes look 'stupid' and that because he's in a wheelchair he's going to die early. The list is as long as my arm. Dd's always coming home with new tales and Z's frequently the topic of upset for many of the mums whose kids have been physically hurt by him.

So he's a difficult character. The teacher has been giving him one-on-one time for 30 minutes after lunch to 'extend' his literacy and numeracy, a luxury that none of the other children get. Dd, for instance, has had one-on-one reading time with the teacher only once since starting in September when her parent reader was off sick. Z's mum says this is because his behaviour is so bad because he's not challenged enough and he 'plays tricks on people' when he's bored. She believes he's extremely gifted and the school isn't meeting the challenge of his intellect. She has frequent meetings with the teacher to discuss what they can do to give him more yet so far I don't see any change in his behaviour at all.

I, and a number of other mums, are beginning to feel a bit miffed that he gets so much attention when his behaviour is so appalling and that our own children get so little in comparison and I wondered if the teacher's decision to give him this extra tuition was a typical move with a disruptive but bright child. And if so, is it known to work?

I've been wondering whether to see the headmaster about the situation, especially given that dd's parent reader has been away for the last 2 weeks so dd hasn't read to anybody at all for 3 weeks now apart from the group guided reading sessions she does once a week. It seems unfair that the teacher can find 30 minutes once a day for one child and leave others with no time at all for weeks on end.

From what I can gather this is the teacher's first class as she's only just qualified as a teacher.

What would you do? Grin and bear it or go and speak to someone?

Z's mum is very 'pushy', she turns a blind eye to his behaviour problems and is genuinely convinced that it's the school's fault for not keeping him challenged. She said to me the other day that she 'doesn't rate' the teacher. I mentioned that she's getting quite a good deal, especially when there are some children who barely speak English (I listen to the lowest achieving group read and I really feel they could do with the teacher's direction rather than my completely unqualified one) who get no time with the teacher.

It seems to me to be a rather sad condition of our times that the worst behaved child gets the best and the quieter ones who are just getting on with school and doing their best are penalised.

Help me put this in perspective? I've made an appointment to see the teacher next Wednesday and I'd like to go in and say everything in a fair but clear way.

OP posts:
LadyMuck · 10/02/2008 23:19

TBh IF if you posted that as your OP I suspect that you would have got a very different response. And I suspect that you will get a satisfactory outcome for your child if you go to the teacher with that (but as other have said, please try to find a time when your dd isn't present - a more experienced teacher would automatically find something for your dd to do eg "help" a TA for a few minutes).

Good luck.

Quattrocento · 10/02/2008 23:20

Oh and IF, I have to say that I have no idea whether either of my children have ever been heard reading but I imagine that they probably have, because they have learned to read ...

Don't worry so much

Have another hug

imaginaryfriend · 10/02/2008 23:21

Candlewax I do know what it's like to be the parent of a child who is different. My dd is different.

I also know what it's like to be the sister of someone with severe autism in a time when there weren't anything like the kind of provisions there are today.

Z's mum is absolutely not hurting so much. She is bubbly, happy and confident. So is Z - he bounds in and out of school without a care. He has been assessed previously because his behaviour has been disruptive and they have found nothing 'wrong'.

Other people in the class are not so happy. Particularly the single mum with the disabled boy who Z is being so unkind to. But I guess that doesn't count.

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imaginaryfriend · 10/02/2008 23:26

Quattro, dd and I may have some shy and retiring genes but we love hugs!

Thanks LM I will try to keep dd out of the way when I speak to the teacher.

katepol, thanks. It is a lot of the teacher's time isn't it? Especially when Z's mum still sees it as inadequate!

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springlamb · 10/02/2008 23:27

Might have been more constructive to mention the sort of changes the class have recently made - the class is divided into several groups and the teacher plus one group work away from the classroom for at least part of the day; classroom assistant takes the lead more in dealing with the difficult children so teacher is focussing on the whole class more; one difficult child's parent is in school some of the time to help; new system of rewarding behaviour over and above the norm as well as rewarding our difficult children for achieving the norm.
Also, would wish to make the point that if any assessment is going on, it will not consist of the class teacher spending half an hour a day with the child. It will involve specialist teachers visiting the child in class more. If an IEP were in place, then the teacher's input should be much more at the planning level leaving her classroom assistant/1-to-1 to work with the child. It does sound like your NQT needs a little re-balance, this does happen, some years ago I saw an NQT almost give herself a nervous breakdown trying to be the one to 'change' a child.
IM, with my respect and sympathy, could you consider asking to move to another class for parent reading sessions, even temporarily - I do feel this would enable the teacher/headteacher to see your issues rather more objectively, and you may improve your position in fighting your dd's corner.
Sorry, I've yacketed on.

Candlewax · 10/02/2008 23:31

IF - what SEN does your dd have?

Autism is a huge spectrum. Has it occured to you that Z may be on that spectrum - HFA or Aspergers?

If he were, it would certainly explain his unkind, unempathetic comments to other children.

I would have hoped, where he was unkind in his comments to other children, that it was explained to him how inappropriate they were.

What I find particulary sad is the fact that this seems a bit of a playground affair; that parents are ganging up and you are going to take it upon yourself to see the HT.

You state in your OP that your daughter and Z are in the top group. Where then is your dd suffering? She is obviously very bright and very capable. Is this a concern for your dd because your dd thinks Z is getting an extra half an hour with the teacher because he is cleverer than her?

katepol · 10/02/2008 23:32

IF - my dd1 sounds a little like your dd. She notices when things aren't fair, and it has affected her. Now in Yr 2 she can talk about why rules are different for different people, and how others need more encouragement than her and get more praise when it doesn't seem merited. However, I know that while she can rationalise it, she would still thrill at being told she is doing well. But because she is quiet, compliant and achieving, she is always overlooked. It annoys the hell out of me, but I can see how it happens. I just make sure she knows how well she is doing, and how pleased I am that she tried hard and is kind along with it. I do still hope that she will get a teacher that can keep more balls in the air though....
Good luck with your meeting with your dd's teacher - let us know.

imaginaryfriend · 10/02/2008 23:35

sl I've already decided to quit doing the parent reading sessions as the particular group I have now I feel really need to be heard by someone qualified. If it were just a case of hearing some of the higher achieving children read their books and change them over then I would be fine with that but the kids I've been listening to lately have big problems with language and just grasping the basics of recognising letters. I feel really useless at helping them. Can I just reiterate that my current questions re. Z have nothing to do with my parent reading sessions. With those I go into a small separate room, call in each child for about 10 mins each then I leave when I'm done. I don't see what happens in the classroom and I've signed a privacy agreement so I wouldn't discuss it outside the room.

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imaginaryfriend · 10/02/2008 23:42

CW your tone is uncalled for. I would think that if Z was on the autistic spectrum 3 separate assessments over the last 2.5 years would have revealed something. Plus he's one of the least autistic children I've ever come across.

Your other comments are just a wind up. Barely worthy of reply.

"What I find particulary sad is the fact that this seems a bit of a playground affair; that parents are ganging up and you are going to take it upon yourself to see the HT." - I've never said anything of the kind. I have no plan to see the HT and i haven't ganged up with anybody.

"You state in your OP that your daughter and Z are in the top group. Where then is your dd suffering? She is obviously very bright and very capable. Is this a concern for your dd because your dd thinks Z is getting an extra half an hour with the teacher because he is cleverer than her?"

  • just a nasty dig at my dd. You should be ashamed for making such a childish remark. That is of the playground mentality.
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imaginaryfriend · 10/02/2008 23:44

katepol that's very like dd. I really worry about her esteem though as she doesn't feel as outraged at her lack of 'praise' as I do. She often feels she's 'useless' at everything and no matter how much I tell her she's great I think it would do her so much good to hear someone else say it now and then.

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critterjitter · 10/02/2008 23:46

Hi Imaginaryfriend
My immediate take on this is that its either a case of an over enthusiastic NQT, or the mother is bull**ing you about how bright her son is etc, when he is perhaps getting some kind of school assistance etc (though what I don't know).

Many parents will talk their children up. And if she has concerns about her son, then she may be doing her utmost to couch the situation in a different way ie. she doesn't rate the teacher, she'll pull him out of the school soon if they don't challenge him enough, he's so bright that he needs extra attention etc. May well be that the school itself have suggested that this school isn't the right environment for him and she is trying to appear in control of the situation. Think you have to take most things that parents say about their kids outside the school gates with a pinch of salt!

I suppose you could ask the teacher directly if your DD/DS could have some of the extra coaching that goes on after lunch? Although she wouldn't be able to explain exactly what she is doing with this boy (confidentiality etc), she may be able to confirm that its not coaching (if thats the case!).

springlamb · 10/02/2008 23:49

Sorry mate I was envisaging a classroom setting for your reading sessions.
I would go with one more discussion with the CT, then one with the HT. However, would exercise caution about discussing any other child's issues other than your own dd. Don't set yourself up as the 'lead parent' on this. That has a nasty habit of jumping up and biting you on the bum. All you want is for your dd to be recognised and rewarded (and of course if dd has any problems for these to be addressed). By all means, invite the staff themselves to canvass opinions of other parents. But keep yourself focussed on dd.
Good luck. Orf to bed.

imaginaryfriend · 10/02/2008 23:50

Hi there . I suspect an over-enthusiastic NQT plus a very forceful mum.

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imaginaryfriend · 10/02/2008 23:52

sl, yes, definitely not going in to represent any other kids, just dd.

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oops · 11/02/2008 00:00

Message withdrawn

Candlewax · 11/02/2008 00:07

[hnn]No my comments are not unkind and they are not there to wind you up, far from it. I am trying to get you go see it from another's point of view and you told me your dd was different which I took to mean SEN.

I seemed to have touch a raw nerve.

"I, and a number of other mums, are beginning to feel a bit miffed that he gets so much attention when his behaviour is so appalling and that our own children get so little in comparison and I wondered if the teacher's decision to give him this extra tuition was a typical move with a disruptive but bright child." That is the comment that made me think of mums gossiping and ganging up. It must have been discussed in the playground.

I will bow out now as I have no wish to answer you comments about me having a "playground mentality" it is getting late and I have other things I need to do.

Good luck with the discussion with your dd's teacher and I hope you get what your dd needs.

imaginaryfriend · 11/02/2008 00:10

Hello oops - of course I remember your ds. It's good to hear how he's getting on actually. His school sound like they have much better provisions for helping children socialise than dd's school. I don't think there's anything like that.

I'm off to bed now oops but lets keep in touch more on here? I miss your kindred spirit!

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imaginaryfriend · 11/02/2008 00:13

CW, no raw nerves. Just bored nerves now. I've taken so many surreptitious digs on here they're just washing over me now. And your comment about dd being bothered about Z getting extra time because he was cleverer was below the belt. And pointless.

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oops · 11/02/2008 00:18

Message withdrawn

imaginaryfriend · 11/02/2008 00:21

Oxford Tree 7 & 8 is amazing I'd have thought! Surely that's not average in his class? I thought dd was doing well on ORT 4 / 5. I don't think anyone in her class is much ahead of that.

Dd's been playing Super Pixies with her old friend who's in Year 1 at lunchtimes. I don't really know what she does for the rest of the day!

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imaginaryfriend · 11/02/2008 00:23

Off to crash now oops. Sleep well.

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oops · 11/02/2008 00:30

Message withdrawn

oops · 11/02/2008 00:30

Message withdrawn

stuffitall · 11/02/2008 08:03

IF just checking in and think you have a rotten hard time so and good luck -- you sound rational and calm. I would follow your instinct.

stuffitall · 11/02/2008 08:04

that should say -- think you had a rotten hard time on here last night
anyway stick to your guns