Is this a normal thing to happen in Reception? (disruptive boy given extra attention) long-ish post

[imaginaryfriend]

I'm going to try to get this in a nutshell but it's quite complicated.

Dd's in Reception with a little boy, I'll call him 'Z' just to make things briefer. Z is a reasonably high achieving boy, he's in the 'top' group at the moment along with dd and 4 other girls, all at roughly the same level (I do parent reading with them once a week so I'm fairly confident about this). Z is an extremely disruptive boy despite being very bright, he's taken up to the Headmaster many times, sent into the 'buddy room', up and down the behaviour ladder. He does some pretty unpleasant things like telling the Muslim girl in the same group that all Muslims are going to go to Hell, telling a physically disabled boy that his built up shoes look 'stupid' and that because he's in a wheelchair he's going to die early. The list is as long as my arm. Dd's always coming home with new tales and Z's frequently the topic of upset for many of the mums whose kids have been physically hurt by him.

So he's a difficult character. The teacher has been giving him one-on-one time for 30 minutes after lunch to 'extend' his literacy and numeracy, a luxury that none of the other children get. Dd, for instance, has had one-on-one reading time with the teacher only once since starting in September when her parent reader was off sick. Z's mum says this is because his behaviour is so bad because he's not challenged enough and he 'plays tricks on people' when he's bored. She believes he's extremely gifted and the school isn't meeting the challenge of his intellect. She has frequent meetings with the teacher to discuss what they can do to give him more yet so far I don't see any change in his behaviour at all.

I, and a number of other mums, are beginning to feel a bit miffed that he gets so much attention when his behaviour is so appalling and that our own children get so little in comparison and I wondered if the teacher's decision to give him this extra tuition was a typical move with a disruptive but bright child. And if so, is it known to work?

I've been wondering whether to see the headmaster about the situation, especially given that dd's parent reader has been away for the last 2 weeks so dd hasn't read to anybody at all for 3 weeks now apart from the group guided reading sessions she does once a week. It seems unfair that the teacher can find 30 minutes once a day for one child and leave others with no time at all for weeks on end.

From what I can gather this is the teacher's first class as she's only just qualified as a teacher.

What would you do? Grin and bear it or go and speak to someone?

Z's mum is very 'pushy', she turns a blind eye to his behaviour problems and is genuinely convinced that it's the school's fault for not keeping him challenged. She said to me the other day that she 'doesn't rate' the teacher. I mentioned that she's getting quite a good deal, especially when there are some children who barely speak English (I listen to the lowest achieving group read and I really feel they could do with the teacher's direction rather than my completely unqualified one) who get no time with the teacher.

It seems to me to be a rather sad condition of our times that the worst behaved child gets the best and the quieter ones who are just getting on with school and doing their best are penalised.

Help me put this in perspective? I've made an appointment to see the teacher next Wednesday and I'd like to go in and say everything in a fair but clear way.

But he is bright Yurt. I've heard him read and he's really good and focused. I think he's exceptionally bright at mathematics but that's only going on what dd says (which everyone tells me to take no notice of) and his mum (which may or may not to be taken notice of) and the fact that the teacher sits doing maths with him for 30 mins after lunch each day according to Z, his mum, and a number of children.

Would he be being assessed in the classroom every day for 30 mins? I just don't think so, I think what his mum says is true, that this is a plan to try to focus his attention and to meet his educational needs in maths which may well be above the level of the rest of the class.

Actually if your child is in reception and can accurately time how long the teacher is spending on Z, then I think that she is relatively advanced in maths. Ds1 in Year 2 could probably only work it out if the period of time started dead on the hour.

Isn't it pretty plain that no child should be getting 30 minutes one on one with the teacher during time she's meant to be teaching all of them?

IF, I think you've had an unnecessarily rough time on this thread.

Not as much monitoring as you would think - especially, if in order to monitor, another colleague's classes have to be covered.

Also the school may be very happy for the NQT to give of her time like this - until of course, discontented sounds come from the other parents. If other pupils, including those with SN, are not having their needs met & pupils such as IF's dd are switched off to school, that would indicate to me at least more or better support needed, not because the NQT is a bad teacher but because it's a complicated set of circumstances that would challenge most of us.

It is very common for NQTs (I used to be one and now train them in school) to feel as if they must 'solve' the problems of all their pupils and they have 'failed' if they do not. It's a difficult juggling trick, meeting the needs of all the pupils and knowing when to call for help and from where.

Should've said 30 minutes every day.

LM there's no need to be snide. Z's mum told me it was 30 mins. Dd told me it was for the length of time they do carpet time after lunch with the TA which is on their timetable as 30 mins.

Lots of bright children (especially with behaviour problems) have IEP/s. I didn't mean that this would be an assessment, just that if there are concerns being raised your friend may not be teeling you the whole story either because she's in denial pr because she doesn't want to discuss it with everyone.

What would the teacher usually be doing when the TA is doing carpet time?

I think I've had a rotten time on here too hm so thanks for the sympathy! I don't know why people have been so repeatedly unpleasant and then accuse me of resentment.

Heated, your posts are very interesting to me, shedding a different light on things. That's just what I was hoping for in the beginning, a fresh perspective on what might be going on.

Yurt I don't know what the teacher would normally be doing when the TA's doing carpet time. Preparing the afternoon's activities? Someone with more knowledge of how the teaching dynamics work would have to answer that. I'd be interested to know.

imaginaryfriend i think you are right and agree with hunker.
I hope you can talk to your dd's teacher and get her sitution sorted.

Thanks 2shoes. I do find it extraordinary that my dd's needs are almost 'taboo' to mention when there's a boy with louder needs in the foreground.

Interesting Heated, I was under the impression that there would be a minimum amount of observation that had to be done. Ds1's NQT was being observed weekly in her first term either by her mentor (coincidentally ds2's reception teacher) or the head. Not sure of the frequency this term, though certainly some observation has been done. In addition the head and previous class teacher seem to have been involved in all SENCO related consults. Surprised that state schools would be slacker in surpervision of NQTs than the private sector, but I guess that would be a whole different debate.

IF I suppose I find it odd that despite a number of people, some of whom have been in situations similar to Z's mum, giving you some plausible explanations for what may be happening, you still cling to, what appears to me, the least logical explanation, given that the child in question will be being assessed on against the foundation stage framework. If you truly believe that the teacher would ignore the blatant needs of Z in terms of socialisation and instead purely concentrate on one aspect of the curriculum, and that that would go unnoticed, or even encouraged by the management team, then why are you entrusting your dd's education to this school?

imaginaryfriend my ds had a child in his class(with no sn) who was disruptive and spent most of his time working outside the heads office. he would verbally bully a lot of the children> I went to see the head on more than one occasion only to be told the boy was getting help!!
doesn't really help when your own child no longer wants to go to school and is worrying about what to wear as the boy makes comments about everything.
It is a hard situation to be in and I think it is unfair that people can't see that you just need help in getting things sorted for your dd.

Very quickly as have got to go to bed ...
Behavioural difficulties are / count as SEN - he would / should have an IEP, even if just for behaviour - if he's really at risk of exclusion there would be other behaviour management plans which would be put in place to avoid this - all of which might involve quite a bit of 1-1. In our school (mainstream but 40% SEN with about half that behaviours difficulties) teachers sometimes do end up spending lots of time with one child, for all the reasons others have already mention. Best of a bad situation sometimes?!
So don;t think you can really do anything re 1-1 time. The school shouldn't really tell you anything anyway, due to confidentiality!! But, if you're unhappy about what your child is getting, raise this with teacher. Totaly different issue!
Must go to sleep now!

LM, how dd's teacher is assessed and mentored is something I know nothing at all about. I would imagine it's different in the state sector to the private sector as many things seem to be.

I don't think that any of the posters who've put themselves in the position of Z's mum on here are actually in the same position. The description of their children's problems are all very different and their children had been assessed and were being helped accordingly. Z has been assessed 3 times to my knowledge (all 3 times I was told by his mum which is what makes me feel she wouldn't conceal it if it was happening again) and each time has been given no SEN or IEP. I could ask Z's mum when I next see her what the exact nature of his extra lessons involves but as has been pointed out to me on here it's not really any of my business.

Only briefly skimmed IF but it seems to me that the issue (for you) is the large class size and the lack of individual attention for your DD. The Zedboy must be a symptom of a wider problem rather than a cause, no?

Primary school education really really matters. Is there any possibility of HE/private/tutoring etc to help your DD to develop to her full potential?

2shoes it is a hard situation. It doesn't come easy for me to be pushy, in fact I can completely relate to dd's desire to fade into the background. But I think dd is worth more than that and has great potential. She needs more support at school though, she can be very shy and reserved.

Hello quattro. We don't have a lot of money to be honest and I worry about doing too much out of school learning as it would make dd even more alienated from her classroom situation I think. I do a lot of things with her at home myself and she's coming on so well with reading but already because her teacher isn't listening to her read at all she doesn't realise where dd's at so sends her home with what dd sees as very dull, unchallenging books.

Shocked at the treatment IM has received here! Am full of sympathy.
My dd is in Yr1 and has been through much the same since the beginning of the academic year. She felt isolated, unwanted and unrewarded for her efforts due to constantly seeing the same two classmates absolutely dominate the whole day with their behaviour. There are no SN needs here (even their own mothers agree they are plain NAUGHTY) but they were getting all the quality teaching time.
It is only in the last few weeks after much discussion and a few changes that the needs of the other class members have been properly addressed. Dd much happier and more confident. Her handwriting has come on a treat and her reading has flown.
Class teacher came out to me the other morning to remark on how happy dd seems at the moment - first time she has ever approached me with either good news or bad.

If Z has been assessed THREE times then surely you can work out that there is a problem! And they are probably monitoring him. Have you ANY idea of what goes into the assessment of a child before a school or parent applies for a Statutory Assessment or a Statement of Special Educational Needs? Do you know just how many times a Statutory Assessment is refused because the LEA try their very best to ensure that schools just cope even if it is to the detriment of the child?

If he is being assessed and school are working towards a Statement that does not necessarily carry any more money in it as I think someone suggested earlier in this saga. Statements can and are awarded with no extra income to the school to comply with the legalities in the Statement. Inclusion is everything, even if it is not int the best interests of the child.

You do not know what it is like to be a parent of a child who is "different". I do expect Z's mother is brazing it out. She must be hurting so much in all honesty.

sl that sounds very familiar to me. I sometimes wonder if the teacher remembers dd's name! She stumbles over it when she's calling out the children to come out at home time . There's a reward 'heart' on the wall and children who behave exceptionally well get their name put up there. Dd's never had her name up and she so longs to. She tells me 'I always try but nobody notices' and I find it heartbreaking.

IF don't know if you do hugs or not, but I've despatched one anyway. Wouldn't a quick word with the teacher sort this out? Or is this shy and reserved thing an inherited tendency?

IM - I don't have anything new to contribute, but do want to offer my support. I think your OP was reasonable, I don't think you are making assumptions and I think any parent would be concerned about the impact the teacher taking 30 mins a day on a one to one would have on her time for everyone else (30 mins a day would be 15% of her time with just one pupil).
Now there may be very good reason for this, but I would say you had a genuine concern about the impact this focus was having on others in the class.
As you have concluded, going in and talking about the impact on your dd is the way to go, rather than complaining about Z's situation. as Heated said, an NQT may not have everything covered, and her supervision may not be as good as it should. I suspect she is trying her best though, and maybe needs some guidance.
I have been told many times by people who work in schools, that alas, it is those that shout loudest (children or parents) that get what they need. May not be fair, but as you say, you need to stick your neck out a bit for your dd's sake. I suspect just a few days of kind glances and encouraging words from the teacher will help your dd a lot. It sounds like Z will need more, and I hope he gets what he needs too, but not at to the detriment of others in the class.
Sorry you have been unfairly criticised on this thread....
(oh, and not that it will make you feel better, but my dd is not heard reading - only twice since starting reception - but she is doing well and I encourage her at home)