Forcing child to attend school camping trip?

[Anorthernlass]

My DD does not want to go on a 5 day school camping trip mostly because of embarassing and uncomfortable health issues. I don't think forcing her, with the possibility of having a negative experience, is a good idea.

Presumably because of pandemic delays this is a trip that involves the whole of year 5 and 6. Anyone who does not attend has to spend the week with year 4.

DD is now terrified of being teased for not attending and anxious about the mortifying?? experience of spending the week with year 4. You can't win.

I would love DD to go but I think forcing a child is wrong. I think the five day is very long for any child tbh - my older son had a three day trip.

If the tables were turned and this was an adult, they would have a choice to say no, and imho many with health problems would.

What should I do? Any advice on how to handle this?

Agreed, what an awful way to treat anyone let alone a child! Complete lack of empathy. I have ASD and I was terrified at night time in my own house never mind staying away from home on a school trip - and I am not talking just feeling a little home sick I am talking sheer terror that I can't even begin to describe. Can't believe the lack of empathy from people on this thread towards very young children.

The reason she is unhappy is because they aren't making suitable adjustments for her health issue. This is disability discrimination and is illegal.

You need to fight her corner and establish the best way for her to be included in as much of the activity as is possible for her. Making her spend the week with Y4 instead is a humiliating and inappropriate response to their lack of sensitivity to additional needs.

Clearly a lot of the week will be accessible and enjoyable for her, but the overnight camping is a problem that might be resolvable in a number of ways.

Without knowing exactly what the health issue is, and what the trip exactly is, it's difficult to suggest. Would your child be able to enjoy the trip if she had a separate accommodation away from the other children and perhaps with a 1:1 carer to assist with her health needs? Is the trip close enough to home that she could join in with the others during the days but come home at night?

If they can't provide a suitable adjustment to make the week accessible for her then you need to keep her off school for the week, but don't let that be the end of it. Complain to the governers that they utterly failed to make the activity inclusive for a pupil with additional needs, and do not let the matter drop.

Right I'm confused. Feminism fought for equal rights as did those that fought for disability rights. The rights for women and people with disabilities to be treated equally (or with equity)
I firmly believe in these rights.

If the school were refusing to accommodate this child then I think that would be discriminatory and completely unfair and would agree that the school should make the trip accessible to all.

This trip appears to be accessible to all, the school will accommodate her but she does not wish to go. I do not think because she can go she must go. But I would feel like this for any reason. Y5 is old enough to articulate their feelings, if one of mine didn't want to go I would not have forced them.

I really don’t agree that a child should get to have any choice in which parts of their education they engage in! I also don’t think that potential embarrassment is a good enough reason to opt out.

Coco I really disagree with this.

@Ducksurprise The reason why she doesn't want to go is entirely related to her medical problem. Obviously it's up to OP to decline to share it, but there is no medical issue that by definition bars a child from being included. Her embarrassment means she isn't being properly supported and included. She hasn't received adequate support if she feels she won't be welcomed and assisted in whatever way she needs. This may well be in part down to the school not understanding the problem, but OP also isn't facilitating her DD's inclusion.

Children with very 'extreme' medical needs can be included. Far more so than it sounds like this DD has.

It also sends the DD a terrible message about how her needs should and will affect her going forward into adolescent and adult life. The solution will almost never be to excuse herself from involvement. She 100% needs and deserves suitable support and accommodations, and her DM needs to take the lead in advocating for her and showing her how that works - so that she can then learn to do it for herself!

I wouldn’t send her, these things aren’t compulsory at all but my son was looking forward to his and hated it which is a shame
my older 2 loved it. My younger son will likely not go or go during the day for a couple of days. Ask school what they can do to support her? They need to try to include her and support her and your wishes.

The school may not be able to come up with a way to take away to take away OPs embarrassment or discomfort with her health issue.

I’m aware of a child that didn’t do a year 6 residential due to something the school/parents couldn’t find a suitable work around based on a health issue. The alternatives offered by the school would have drew attention to the child.

OPs child’s

I know that at my dc's school there were always half a dozen who didn't go-and it was always child choice, as the school would use funds to cover any child whose parents couldn't pay.
However, the children left behind, although officially they went into year 5, the reality was that they were given a lot of responsibilities and tasks to do. I know, for example, they manned the reception on one day, and I know of at least once child who chose to do that because it sounded more fun (to them).

OP, Ideally I'd go for the signing up then ill on the day, but I suspect you'd then have to pay. So can you organise a medical appointment (which naturally can't be moved) on, say Tuesday morning, so naturally she can't go. Then she can be ill on Monday etc.
I wouldn't go to tell them you're "educating at home" because actually I suspect they can't just say "okay" to that. It may go down as unauthorised absence, and they may say they can't do that.
I'm sure people are going to jump up and down calling that it's their "parental rights" to choose to do that but I doubt it's that simple-if nothing else, surely that would be the way people would sign up for holidays to avoid fines.
The school would probably be thankful for you saying "ill" and not putting them in the awkward position of having to take notice that you're just not sending her.

I wouldn't force her either.

By d's in y6 is currently away for 5 days. That length of time is no problem for the majority of 11 or nearly 11 year olds. However, there is at least one girl in his year who just wasn't up for it and didn't want. A few others aren't going either. School has arranged a week of fun for them instead - eg they were going bowling today!

Oops haven't been here awhile.
School convinced her but she's against it again for what I believe good reason.
We received a very important appointment anyway so think it would have caused disruption.

I'll send her to school at least until this appointment.and can always discuss any enrichment if that week does turn out to be eg childcare (I don't work so would love to have a couple.of days to visit museums, arrange activities etc)

The trip is not covering curriculum and only a couple of the children are going to DDs new school.I have heard of others not going so I guess its not so bad. The teachers are lovely but I don't think it will make a difference to her. She's not disabled but she needs time to deal with her situation. Unfortunately the timing just isn't right.

@Anorthernlass I'm not saying that she personally has to identify as disabled! Of course it's 100% fine to see it as a specific health need rather than a disability. But inclusion for children with these needs is still something covered by the campaigning undertaken by disability rights activists. Hope that clears up what I meant - I wasn't trying to pressure you into using a particular label for your DD.

If she's now actually interested in going you should facilitate her inclusion.

Actually there's also some bullying. DD is not disabled.

Her older sister hated her residential (despite teacher saying cheerully how she'd done so well she came home with severe chafing and covered in a rash) at that same age and is now doing DOE, loves camping, and is planning an.overseas school trip next year.

I realiseI now I wasnt in England in year 6 which is why I guess I didn't know about these 5 day trips! I did my first trip away in secondary school.

I think I attached the wrong quote. There was a general discussion about disability. I actually don't think her needs are being met tbh and I don't think the staff undersrand the situation. Until the doctors give us some answers I can understand why. Unfortunately waiting lists are so long it is so frustrating.

@Anorthernlass I would gently encourage you to be open minded with the terms 'disability' and 'disabled', though, in case this health issue persist when DD is older and at some point she might feel drawn to disability based resources or activism. Again, I'm not saying you should feel pressure to label her, but it's also probably a good idea not to anti label her, because if she grows up seeing 'disability' as stigmatised or stigmatising (e.g. 'you have this health need, but it's not like you're actually disabled...'), it could be a tricky thing for her if she ever does want to connect with or draw strength from the disabled community.

Hope that makes sense, haven't had a lot of sleep!

Tbh it sounds like it's you who doesn't want her to go. It's understandable that you're anxious, of course, but please try to manage that for yourself rather than passing it on to her. She deserves to participate fully in everything her school peers are doing. Why should she have to wait until secondary?

You are correct.

I almost feel guilty not disclosing the underlying reason why she's too embarrassed and nervous about her situation to go!! The teachers are lovely and accommodating, but she has a choice of being uncomfortable and irritated for a week and she chooses not to be!!

@Anorthernlass No, fluffycereal was not correct on the subject of disability rights. We sorted out what we were talking about as a bit of a mutual misunderstanding, but I really think it's off for you to jump in on this days later when, as you've made very clear, your DD isn't even disabled! How is your opinion on the history of disabled people's civil rights relevant?

Morning, everyone. We just wanted to pop in and try and get this thread back on track.

The discussion about disability rights is really interesting and this is definitely something that affects lots of Mumsnetters and their children, but perhaps it would be best to have that discussion separately on another thread in this instance.

As this thread specifically is more of a personal support thread, and the OP seems to have said that her child doesn't have a disability but more of an ongoing health issue, it might be best to get back to her original question and, as we said, have more general discussions about the way children with disabilities are enabled to take full part in school trips on a different thread.

Thanks

You arnt telling us what the medical issue is that your daughter is embarrassed about. Clearly she feels she has a problem no one knows about and that if they did know she would be bullied. You must take on board what your daughter is telling you and you should arrange a confidential meeting to discuss the matter..perhaps by Skype or zoom so your daughter is not aware of this with the school SENCO. Many 10 year old children are not ready for extended visits away from home of more than a night and you should start these with family friends and sleepovers who your child knows and trusts. You must explain to your daughter that the alternative is that she attends school where arrangements will be made..she's unlikely to be the only child not going on the trip but send her to school you must. However sooner or later, she will have to acquire some independence and will need to participate in adventures away from home but you could agree it that can and shouldhappen when she goes to big school. Retired teacher.

I agree. Children do have to learn that they cannot pick and choose what they will not do. We arnt told what the medical issues are that causes embarrassment it could be bed wetting, sleep walking, periods or even more profound disability. The discussions should be had with the school and ways sought of overcoming the concerns. To simply give in is not the answer because you will tevist the problem again again. Perhaps a family member could go along on the trip or maybe on this occasion it could be agreed that the child attends school with the other class.

@Siarli

It was a year ago, almost. Probably too late for your advice. Thankfully.