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Original poster

Forcing child to attend school camping trip?

122 replies

Anorthernlass · 18/05/2022 09:08

My DD does not want to go on a 5 day school camping trip mostly because of embarassing and uncomfortable health issues. I don't think forcing her, with the possibility of having a negative experience, is a good idea.

Presumably because of pandemic delays this is a trip that involves the whole of year 5 and 6. Anyone who does not attend has to spend the week with year 4.

DD is now terrified of being teased for not attending and anxious about the mortifying?? experience of spending the week with year 4. You can't win.

I would love DD to go but I think forcing a child is wrong. I think the five day is very long for any child tbh - my older son had a three day trip.

If the tables were turned and this was an adult, they would have a choice to say no, and imho many with health problems would.

What should I do? Any advice on how to handle this?

OP posts:
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HeidiWhole · 18/05/2022 12:52

@Anorthernlass
I think you can only ask, if they say no just tell them you will appeal any fines. Your DD could of course just have a week off due to medical issues!
I'm not in mainstream education anymore but I'm sure someone here will have more advice on how to deal with this type of thing.

TizerorFizz · 18/05/2022 13:05

It is reasonable of the school to temporarily look after the DC who don’t go in another class with a qualified teacher. The lower KS2 will be fully staffed I would think. Cash strapped schools do have to do this now.

However if the trip is covering the curriculum, your DD has a right to be taught it in school. I think all you can do is negotiate with the school and explain the issues. I think lying won’t work. They know she goes to school. You can pretend she’s ill but what lesson will
she learn from you lying?

I would also prepare her for the chat amongst her friends who have gone on the trip. She will be out of the loop. It’s inevitable. So your decision, to me, rests on whether the trip covers curriculum (eg geography) or whether it’s pure fun and bonding. If you don’t want her in school you have to take the consequences, if any. If you do want her in school, then the arrangements are legal. However the school must cover the curriculum if she’s missed it. If it’s an ongoing issue, what about her future participation in anything? Also 5 nights is totally normal.

beechhues · 18/05/2022 13:22

Surely if you write a letter saying parental approval is withheld for health reasons, you wouldn't get a fine?

Original poster
Anorthernlass · 18/05/2022 14:05

weebarra · 18/05/2022 12:42

DS2 should be on his residential just now. He's in p7 so he's 11 and in his final year of primary.
He is not away because I couldn't persuade him. He has ASD but is high functioning and has friends in school.
He's hating being at school and working with the younger kids. He wishes he were there but I should have negotiated a shorter time etc. Issue is that it's 4 hours away so difficult to pick him up.

It's possible my DD also has ASD (I hope not for their sake, but older DD has so its a higher likelihood) and one of several reasons this is just too much of a worry for them.
DD has also been run down since Novembr and school is becoming overwhelming.

OP posts:
Lunificent · 18/05/2022 14:14

She will feel invisible and anxious on the trip. She’ll feel humiliated and anxious with year 4. Adults would be signed off with stress for less.
I wouldn’t have her do either but how I approached that with school would depend on how flexible they’re willing to be. If you think they would be flexible, ask for a work from home arrangement. If you know they won’t bend, she needs to be off sick.
is she under CAMHS or any other organisation? If do, they could write a letter to school for you.

Original poster
Anorthernlass · 18/05/2022 14:17

TizerorFizz · 18/05/2022 13:05

It is reasonable of the school to temporarily look after the DC who don’t go in another class with a qualified teacher. The lower KS2 will be fully staffed I would think. Cash strapped schools do have to do this now.

However if the trip is covering the curriculum, your DD has a right to be taught it in school. I think all you can do is negotiate with the school and explain the issues. I think lying won’t work. They know she goes to school. You can pretend she’s ill but what lesson will
she learn from you lying?

I would also prepare her for the chat amongst her friends who have gone on the trip. She will be out of the loop. It’s inevitable. So your decision, to me, rests on whether the trip covers curriculum (eg geography) or whether it’s pure fun and bonding. If you don’t want her in school you have to take the consequences, if any. If you do want her in school, then the arrangements are legal. However the school must cover the curriculum if she’s missed it. If it’s an ongoing issue, what about her future participation in anything? Also 5 nights is totally normal.

It was the chat that got her in such a state this morning. She hadn't anticipated that there may be questions, the others would have bonded, she may feel left out, etc. and why I posted here. I think it I plan some fun activities I can make her feel better.

OP posts:
Lunificent · 18/05/2022 14:20

School will be likely to suggest some compromises. In doing so, they will demonstrate how little they understand your daughter: her anxiety/social anxiety/embarrassment and loneliness. Don’t bend. Know what you want for her that week and make sure you get it.

Also, consider joining the group, ‘Not Fine in School … ‘ on Facebook. You may find some good advice there.

Original poster
Anorthernlass · 18/05/2022 14:21

Lunificent · 18/05/2022 14:14

She will feel invisible and anxious on the trip. She’ll feel humiliated and anxious with year 4. Adults would be signed off with stress for less.
I wouldn’t have her do either but how I approached that with school would depend on how flexible they’re willing to be. If you think they would be flexible, ask for a work from home arrangement. If you know they won’t bend, she needs to be off sick.
is she under CAMHS or any other organisation? If do, they could write a letter to school for you.

That's what worries me. DH ex boarding school etc thinks it's a big fuss over nothing. Doubt the school will bend. She's under a pediatrician care. I think I will arrange a letter.

OP posts:
MrsFezziwig · 18/05/2022 14:24

BlossomWind · 18/05/2022 10:35

I was at primary school in the 1980s and we went on a week long trip to Scarborough in the third year (year 5) and a weeklong trip to Belgium in the fourth year (year 6). Stayed in a chateau.

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I’ll trump your 1980’s and say early 1960s - first went away with school for five days in what would be now Y5.

(not that this is in any way relevant to OP’s particular concerns, just taking issue with the PP stating dogmatically that no way would it have happened).

sashh · 18/05/2022 14:46

Anorthernlass · 18/05/2022 12:22

Should I write a letter with the application? I know HM is very strict. Im assuming I will be fined, but not sure the exact amount. I would obviously pursue this and argue against a fine.

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I'd word it that the trip is not compatible with your DD's health so you want her to be educated, 'off site' for a week, and that offsite is at home.

If you can identify some activities that you will be doing with your DD that are more educational than being with year 4 they can still refuse to authorise it and see you face a fine, but if they do you turn up with evidence of what you did and why it was of more value, they still might fine you but if it is best for your child it's worth it.

BigSandyBalls2015 · 18/05/2022 14:46

Our year 6 trip (then year 1 I think, end of primary, late 70s), we went to Holland for a week. I remember a day trip to Amsterdam, being put into groups of 3 and sent off for a couple of hours, with the teachers telling us what time to be back at the coach. 10/11 year olds Shock

Original poster
Anorthernlass · 18/05/2022 14:51

BigSandyBalls2015 · 18/05/2022 14:46

Our year 6 trip (then year 1 I think, end of primary, late 70s), we went to Holland for a week. I remember a day trip to Amsterdam, being put into groups of 3 and sent off for a couple of hours, with the teachers telling us what time to be back at the coach. 10/11 year olds Shock

Wow impressive! My DS only just went into town with friends for a couple.of hours!!

OP posts:
TuxedoJunction · 18/05/2022 15:26

I was at primary school in the 1980s and we went on a week long trip to Scarborough in the third year (year 5) and a weeklong trip to Belgium in the fourth year (year 6). Stayed in a chateau.

Another one here who went for a week to Belgium in Y6 in the 1980s 😅. It must have been the place to go back then.

Ihatethenewlook · 18/05/2022 20:36

ancientgran · 18/05/2022 12:03

The school is there for all the children, the ones who can't afford to go on the trip, the ones with health issues that can't go, the ones with anxious parents who won't let them go or the ones who just don't want to go. If a school can't cater for all the children's needs it needs to look at it's priorities.

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The school is catering for all the childrens needs. In this case the children who won’t go are getting placed in another class for a week. I’m not sure what else you’d expect them to do

sueelleker · 18/05/2022 21:14

TuxedoJunction · 18/05/2022 15:26

I was at primary school in the 1980s and we went on a week long trip to Scarborough in the third year (year 5) and a weeklong trip to Belgium in the fourth year (year 6). Stayed in a chateau.

Another one here who went for a week to Belgium in Y6 in the 1980s 😅. It must have been the place to go back then.

We went for a week to Belgium in the mid 60's. I was 10 and my sister was 9.

CatSpeakForDummies · 18/05/2022 21:25

It might be slightly off topic, but you should check if it's actually camping, like you say, and not just called "camp" with your DD assuming that means actual camping. Is it possible she's more scared because she's thinking tents and wilderness, when it could be bunk rooms?

If it's toilet based issues, sleeping in a dorm room is a whole different kettle of fish than sleeping in a field.

Double check she knows what she's deciding about, it would be a real shame to miss out over a misunderstanding.

ancientgran · 18/05/2022 22:21

Ihatethenewlook · 18/05/2022 20:36

The school is catering for all the childrens needs. In this case the children who won’t go are getting placed in another class for a week. I’m not sure what else you’d expect them to do

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Putting children in a class that is possibly two years younger is not catering for them properly. If you have a child in year 6 how would you feel if they announced they didn't have enough places for year 6 so she could do a year in year 4? Not appropriate is it? So why would it be appropriate for children who aren't going on a trip?

What do I expect them to do? I expect them to arrange appropriate cover for the week, you know what they are funded by us tax payers to do.

cansu · 18/05/2022 22:24

There is no way that a school can afford to pay two staff to take the OPS child on daytrips while the others are away! It isn't unreasonable for her not to go but she will have to spend the week with another class.

cansu · 18/05/2022 22:27

Ancientgran
You need to inform yourself of the realities of educational budgets. In fairy land yes the school would have enough money for this. In the real world many schools do not.

ancientgran · 18/05/2022 22:31

cansu · 18/05/2022 22:27

Ancientgran
You need to inform yourself of the realities of educational budgets. In fairy land yes the school would have enough money for this. In the real world many schools do not.

Then they can't afford to run the trip. They can't, or shouldn't, benefit one group by disadvantaging another group.

converseandjeans · 18/05/2022 22:50

I would see if you can take her up for a couple of the days. Obviously that could be difficult if you're working.

I agree children are expected sometimes to do things that as an adult you would have a choice over.

If she won't go for the days then I would keep her home rather than going in with year 4.

Anotherdayanotherdisappointment · 18/05/2022 23:12

ancientgran · 18/05/2022 22:31

Then they can't afford to run the trip. They can't, or shouldn't, benefit one group by disadvantaging another group.

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They're not disadvantaging another group. The school want her to go and presumably will cater for her health needs (legally they have to).

She doesn't want to go. The school are not the decision makers here. School are doing nothing wrong. But neither is the OP or her DD.

I'm a teacher too OP. I'd do what others have said, take her for a week of fun yourself. School probably won't authorise it because there are strict rules about what can/can't be authorised but they would/should completely understand and be supportive (just not officially on paper).

Downsize2021 · 18/05/2022 23:14

I haven't read the full thread so maybe someone has said this already.

I teach p1 and we had about 8 p7s not at camp who didn't go and got shared amongst the infants. We did our best to treat them like grown ups, making them lead phonics or manning an art station. I think they really grew by having little people to care for and help learn. Their confidence on friday was so different to the Monday! I am a huge advocate of camp- I've done loads but please ask school what the plan is because those children learned a lot by being in class with us!*

RogueBorg · 19/05/2022 08:37

@converseandjeans of course you can’t take her on day trips to a residential! 🙄 Those kids who are finding homesickness tough don’t want parents and other kids wandering in and out on day trips reminding them of home. She goes or she doesn’t go.

And as to the PP who suggests no children should be allowed to go on a residential because some kids don’t want to go - I seriously hope you’re kidding.

Innocenta · 19/05/2022 08:47

As someone who was a significantly disabled and unwell child, I totally disagree with all the 'just don't send her!' dismissiveness. Children with additional health needs can and should be included too. It's really quite lazy to just leave them out. If the school wants to include her that is a good thing! That's what disability activists fought for.