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Child misbehaviour in reception - excluded and reduced timetable by wk 2. Too strict or proportionate measures?

168 replies

virgomama95 · 21/09/2021 19:02

I was a little worried about how my son would settle in school. They seemed to be doing okay and happy, but I endeavoured to check by day 3. Teacher said child was a joy but struggled to listen sometimes, yet today had been much better and had been showered in stickers for doing so. I wish I had savoured that feedback because what followed was absolute turmoil for us.

Day 4, we were pulled in for a quick after school chat and the teacher told us that our child had pinched another child. Unacceptable of course and we spoke to our child about keeping your hands to yourself. However, day 5, I receive a call from the school about our child's behaviour again - and issues such as not listening, flippant responses and hurting other children (and teachers - in an overwhelmed panic) were brought up. They even used the word 'exclusion' in a sentence about how they were not thinking about it at this point, yet I hadn't brought it up, so the 'reassurance' had more of the opposite effect. They called every day after day 5 - our child's behaviour was escalating. Our child was strong willed and sometimes difficult in nursery but these incidents were far and few in between and nothing on this scale. Our child had plenty of friends in nursery but the teachers said in a meeting (Wed, week 2) that the other children were giving him a 'wide birth', I felt destroyed. My child was suffering, he had gotten into such a state (thurs, week 2) that they were restrained and I had to pick them up (less than 2 hours after their arrival). Our child was excluded on Thursday and was given the weekend to recover. Our child is now on 1 hour a week in a 1-1 situation which is supposed to be for bonding and trust, yet this teacher is actually the only one available for that week and usually works with year 2.

My question is, is this proportionate or is this just too early? I feel like an extra support teacher, monitoring during playtime etc. could have happened before this. How is this beneficial for our child's development, classroom integration, social boundaries etc? I'm stuck between defending ourselves and wanting to cooperate, so I haven't questioned the schools methods as of yet.

OP posts:
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DancesWithTortoises · 22/09/2021 12:51

@Droite

The OP is not arguing that her child is perfect. She is clear that there are issues that need to be dealt with. That does not mean we should blindly support the school when it is acting in this way. If the school was dealing with this appropriately it would have my full support. It isn't.

But some of us think it is being dealt with appropriately. You don't. Fair enough, but it doesn't mean you are right.

But @prh47bridge is right, because they are quoting the law. You might think the law is wrong, but that is irrelevant. If, for the sake of argument, this case ended up in court then a defence by the school that some people might think their reaction was appropriate would get them absolutely nowhere.

What's your point?

How is close adherence to the law going to help the DC tomorrow? Not in court next year. Tomorrow.

The school is trying to slowly reintroduce him - I've seen that work many, many times.

They could have just gone straight to exclusion for his violent behaviour.

Namechange600 · 22/09/2021 12:59

I’m so sorry OP. My Dd had a rough time when she started (august baby) reception. I was told by a cross teacher with DD in earshot that she didn’t listen and she was given time outs for refusing to sit on the carpet and for running inside (she needed the toilet and had an accident). Honestly I was really cross and upset with how it was handled and ended up asking for her to be Part time.

Anyway later (year 3/4) it was clear that she has SEN - diagnosed working memory and processing issues, possibly ASD and dyspraxia and I believe her challenges in reception were due to these needs eg forgetting to line up, needing to move constantly due to dyspraxia/ sensory processing disorder and putting hands over ears due to noise sensitivity - I would speak to the SENCO and ask for support plan to be developed. The school needs to support your son to settle in. Keep a log of what’s happening.

Best of luck I know how hard it is- the
School need to help your son not stigmatise him at this very young age. Watch out for confidence and self esteem levels too as my DDs are very low due to feelings of inadequacy throughout primary.

Droite · 22/09/2021 13:06

@DancesWithTortoises

From the school's perspective, they should be seeing if there are underlying issues causing the distress (SEN for example) and looking at approaches to manage his distress. They clearly haven't done either of those things. Once they have done those things, if all approaches have failed, they can legally exclude him.

You don't know that. They could well be applying for funding and a SEN assessment for all you know but here you are banging on about the law again. This is very early days. The school know the child better than you or the law. I worked with such children for many, many years and sometimes a gradual reintroduction works well, alongside an assessment.

The school cannot summon up a 1 to 1 out of the ether. You seem to think it's all so easy. It really, really isn't.

This may work.

Oh, come on, it's less than three weeks since the beginning of term. If the school was applying for an SEN assessment they would have told OP. And I rather doubt that within those three weeks they know the child better than OP.

It's not just a matter of summoning up a 1:1 - that really is not the universal panacea. The school should be getting advice, it should be having discussions with OP, it should have resources in place to deal with this sort of issue which is hardly uncommon. As @prh47bridge says, there are plenty of schools that manage without resorting to unlawful exclusions and which, indeed, would regard it as a serious failure on their part if they were excluding a 5 year old within a few weeks of that child starting at school.

You can't experiment with things that "may work" with children, and most especially, you can't break the law.

Droite · 22/09/2021 13:13

How is close adherence to the law going to help the DC tomorrow? Not in court next year. Tomorrow.

The school is trying to slowly reintroduce him - I've seen that work many, many times.

The law is written in terms of the child's welfare. What will help the child is compliance with the requirement that the school take urgent action to explore why he is reacting in this way, and take advice on how to deal with it if they are unable to do so - including in particular exploring the possibility of SEN. Using as a first resort an illegal exclusion so that he isn't being educated or receiving the help of experienced people in school, and so that he doesn't know what is going on when he is in school because he's missed so much, isn't going to help.

Part time timetables may help, but until the school has properly assessed what is going on no-one knows whether it will in this case. If the child is at home, the school/local authority should be arranging home tuition so as to meet the full time education duty. And you can't approach a child's welfare on a "suck it and see" basis.

Emberino · 22/09/2021 13:26

Right this is going to seem like a contradiction. Some advice on this forum will be helpful…the problem is that a lot of the advice will come across as well a bit judgemental and make you feel worse. I have children with special needs - not saying your son does. I also used to be a teacher. What I know from both sides is as a parent I expected teachers to be a specialist and know more than me and from being a teacher - teacher’s don’t. This is the contradiction, because now I’m going to suggest something that may help.

You are being reasonable, you are trying to work with the school, they are supposedly the experts but don’t seem to be handling the situation properly.

I found Education Welfare Officers at the council really helpful because their job is normally trying to get school refuses who’s parents don’t care into schools…parents like you who want to work with them and the school are a dream. They generally are very helpful when dealing with a situation like this. They can also help point you in the direction of other services that may help.

Kite22 · 22/09/2021 21:01

Some great posts DancesWithTortoises

I can think of many occasions where the law doesn't put the child's needs foremost.
I can also think of occasions where a pause then reset has worked.

What I am interested in, that I can't see has been answered yet, is what the OP has done to prepare the school for her dc's additional needs, and what she has done to encourage a good transition between Nursery and school, with behaviour or SEND plans shared and strategies shared and 'All About Me' information shared. An enhanced transition might have meant that he wasn't so anxious and distressed and all this could have been avoided.

Droite · 23/09/2021 02:03

I can think of many occasions where the law doesn't put the child's needs foremost.

Irrelevant. In this instance it absolutely does - check the official Exclusions guidance linked above.

What I am interested in, that I can't see has been answered yet, is what the OP has done to prepare the school for her dc's additional needs, and what she has done to encourage a good transition between Nursery and school, with behaviour or SEND plans shared and strategies shared and 'All About Me' information shared. An enhanced transition might have meant that he wasn't so anxious and distressed and all this could have been avoided.

OP said she has co-operated with the school every step of the way, and that these behaviours weren't exhibited to anything like th same extent in nursery. Liaison between the nursery and school would be pretty automatic. Trying to make up a scenario where OP did bugger all in this direction is totally unhelpful.

SaltySheepdog · 23/09/2021 02:39

It’s really difficult to say if their approach is balanced or appropriate as there isn’t enough detail to decide. It would be useful to know what happened to result in adults restraining him. Also what he does when he hurts people, what happens stage by stage, if there an initial trigger and what strategies are implemented by them. It might be that you can help them understand which approaches work best

SaltySheepdog · 23/09/2021 02:41

It might be worth approaching the nursery and asking them to explain how they managed his behaviour. It’s likely that he felt safer and knew the routines in his old provision.

Mumontheschoolrun · 27/09/2021 08:13

@Kite22 not quite sure why professionals get to pass the buck to op for transition. It was up to nursery to flag to primary and if primary had appropriate transition planning for the whole class in place then anything like this would have been covered.

So sad to see an attempt to make parents of sn children responsible for something that is down to the education system

Kite22 · 27/09/2021 11:23

I agree @Mumontheschoolrun, in an ideal world, there would be a wonderful, enhanced transition between all Nurseries and all schools.
Not thinking of this being a 'pass the buck' situation at all. But if it were my child, I would be doing everything I could to make life easier for my child to settle. Yes, hopefully that would mean just 'checking in' with the Nursery to ask what conversations they had had with the school, and what response there had been from the school, in terms of adjustments, but then it would give me time, if I found that not much had happened, to make it my priority to do what I could to make it easier for my child.
That isn't buck passing, that is common sense and prioritising my child's wellbeing.

Liaison between the nursery and school would be pretty automatic.

Oh, that that were true in real life. We would live in a better world.

MrsSkylerWhite · 27/09/2021 11:38

Okarava

Hi
I am in exactly same situation. My child just turned 4 and teacher told us ( without choice) to collect my son at 11:20 .
Than from week 2 they have meeting with us and told my son can only be part time as he has difficulties.
We did not agree to this and straight away my son started to beat all kids and staff.
So we told them that we will be not sending our child to them anymore.
I hate such teachers as I think they have to choose another job ( for example cleaning) if they are not able to manage a small child.
I am sure they are just after funding.
Maybe try another school! I hope all people are different and you can find really good and cleaver teacher.“

Your attitude won’t help your son.

MonkeysSwiningFromTheTrees · 27/09/2021 11:49

They do have a duty to protect the other children.
It must be very upsetting for them just starting school and dealing with a child attacking them, it would be distressing at the best of times.
I can see why the school want to reduce timetable. It may benefit your son to adjust in too. I'd push for referrals to test for any SEN, and once you have an EHCP in place they might be able to get in a member of staff to be with him 1-to-1, keep him calm and from hurting the other children etc.

Lougle · 27/09/2021 12:08

In one of your posts you say:

"Incidents such as not listening straight away, favouring solitary play some days and being very particular about the items he was playing with/not sharing were the issues in nursery."

Favouring solitary play isn't an issue in itself, so is this a way of saying 'got very upset if others wanted to join in'?

'Being very particular' - does that mean 'would only play with what he wanted to and created if someone else took those toys'?

It could be nothing, but those examples strike me to be ASD traits. I have 2 DDs with ASD and I could have said the same about them at his age.

Kite22 · 27/09/2021 12:54

I hate such teachers as I think they have to choose another job ( for example cleaning) if they are not able to manage a small child.

They aren't managing a small child, they are supporting / managing / teaching 30 small children. At once. At the same time. All day. All week. Hmm

Bobholll · 27/09/2021 13:00

‘My son started to beat all the kids & staff’ .. translates in your brain to ‘staff cannot handle my small child’ .. erm really?! You cannot see anything wrong with your 4 year old hitting adults & children?! That this is somehow the teachers fault?

My god 🙈

I’m not sure it’s the teachers who need to be ‘cleaverer’ 😬 but good to know they should all become cleaners if it doesn’t work out. It’s not like they have 4 year long university degrees specialising in children or anything..

VavavoomHenry · 27/09/2021 13:06

Move school. Ex-reception teacher here. Move school.
Whatever support your child needs (or doesn’t!) won’t be best served by a school going about it this way.

Mumontheschoolrun · 28/09/2021 05:59

@VavavoomHenry thanks for posting - always great to get sensible comments from teachers experienced in the early years.

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