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Child misbehaviour in reception - excluded and reduced timetable by wk 2. Too strict or proportionate measures?

168 replies

virgomama95 · 21/09/2021 19:02

I was a little worried about how my son would settle in school. They seemed to be doing okay and happy, but I endeavoured to check by day 3. Teacher said child was a joy but struggled to listen sometimes, yet today had been much better and had been showered in stickers for doing so. I wish I had savoured that feedback because what followed was absolute turmoil for us.

Day 4, we were pulled in for a quick after school chat and the teacher told us that our child had pinched another child. Unacceptable of course and we spoke to our child about keeping your hands to yourself. However, day 5, I receive a call from the school about our child's behaviour again - and issues such as not listening, flippant responses and hurting other children (and teachers - in an overwhelmed panic) were brought up. They even used the word 'exclusion' in a sentence about how they were not thinking about it at this point, yet I hadn't brought it up, so the 'reassurance' had more of the opposite effect. They called every day after day 5 - our child's behaviour was escalating. Our child was strong willed and sometimes difficult in nursery but these incidents were far and few in between and nothing on this scale. Our child had plenty of friends in nursery but the teachers said in a meeting (Wed, week 2) that the other children were giving him a 'wide birth', I felt destroyed. My child was suffering, he had gotten into such a state (thurs, week 2) that they were restrained and I had to pick them up (less than 2 hours after their arrival). Our child was excluded on Thursday and was given the weekend to recover. Our child is now on 1 hour a week in a 1-1 situation which is supposed to be for bonding and trust, yet this teacher is actually the only one available for that week and usually works with year 2.

My question is, is this proportionate or is this just too early? I feel like an extra support teacher, monitoring during playtime etc. could have happened before this. How is this beneficial for our child's development, classroom integration, social boundaries etc? I'm stuck between defending ourselves and wanting to cooperate, so I haven't questioned the schools methods as of yet.

OP posts:
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LolaSmiles · 21/09/2021 21:26

LolaSmilesPart time timetables are only legal when they are short term with the aim of reintegration. Seehereandhere.The part time timetable in the OP's case doesn't sound like its aim is reintegration since a time limit isn't in place and there is no plan to increase DS's hours or integrate him with his class or teacher, especially when it follows an exclusion.
Yes, as I said an agreed part time timetable that is reviewed and part of a plan for reintegration to full time education is allowed.

What I was challenging is the assertion that part time timetables are illegal.

The OP needs more information, to meet with the SENCo and to establish what the plan is. She also could do with establishing how the school have recorded the various unofficial exclusions where she's been called to collect her child.

virgomama95 · 21/09/2021 21:27

@cansu

A child coming into school and becoming involved in a physical restraint on a daily basis will not help this child to settle into school. This child should have been flagged and a plan put in place before they even arrived. The school need to act quickly to come up with a plan, but I do wonder at the communication between nursery, parents and school prior to starting.
Not on a daily basis, the restraining was the icing on the cake for the school and he was collected from school that day. Restrained just the once for his own safety, was not near other children.
OP posts:
Autumndays123 · 21/09/2021 21:29

Ok, so not restraining on a daily basis, but violent incidents on a daily basis? Hence why you said escalating behaviour on a daily basis, worse than pinching? I understand you want to protect your child OP, but it's difficult to give an accurate opinion on whether the school have been heavy handed, when you're purposely being vague to disguise how bad your child's behaviour actually is.

PawsNotClaws · 21/09/2021 21:30

If said child is attacking other children and having to be restrained by adults, how do you deal with the situation? Do you allow the physical safety of all other children and teachers to be at risk each day?

You'd start by looking at why this is happening. What's happening just before the attacks? Can we reduce or eliminate those triggers in any way?

Is it a sensory issue with too much noise and too many people? If so, could we reduce the noise with ear defenders and have the child working only with small groups rather than expect them to cope with a whole classroom full of noisy children?

Can we as staff recognise when the child is likely to 'explode'? What's their body language like? Could we arrange for a 'safe space' where the child can go when he's starting to seem overwhelmed? Maybe a pop-up tent, or a den we've made in the home corner?

There's so much that a school should be doing and considering before exclusion. (And yes, I've been on the receiving end of many kicks/punches/ and objects aimed at me in the classroom!).

PandemicAtTheDisco · 21/09/2021 21:30

What support are you getting for your child?

My child had help almost since birth. She was seen regularly at the local health centre. The local GP was responsible for a few of the referrals. Some came from the local health centre after various developmental checks. The nursery also passed on their concerns. My child saw many specialists. The school SENCO worked together with the specialists to support my child.

Nat6999 · 21/09/2021 21:30

From what you have said about your ds behaviour in nursery, it sounds like he is overwhelmed now he is at school, the playing on his own, only wanting to play with certain toys & not listening ring bells with me & I wonder if the classroom at school is just too "busy" for him to cope & he is suffering from sensory overload. The lashing out & trying to hurt himself when he is removed from the classroom sounds like a meltdown & the behaviour when he was at nursery makes me think he may be autistic or have ADHD. You definitely need to speak to the SENCO to start the ball rolling in getting him assessed & also your GP to do the referral. There was a boy in ds class at primary school with similar behaviour, the teacher managed his behaviour by sitting him at a table on his own, she told him he was sat there to be her "special helper" & had to show the other children how to behave well, he also had a teepee in the reading corner for him to go for time out if he was overwhelmed. He was given extra breaks to the other children, 10 minutes every hour to go outside & run off excess energy. He had done far worse than your ds including throwing a chair at the teacher, absconding from the playground, swearing, spitting & hitting, but he was never excluded, except for the day Ofsted came to inspect when his mum was asked quietly to keep him off for the day. By the time he got to Y6 he was reasonably well behaved compared to how hexwas in reception.

NameChange30 · 21/09/2021 21:30

@PawsNotClaws

There is so much that can and should be done before a child gets anywhere near the point of exclusion. Our HT would think we'd lost the plot if we even considered excluding a brand new reception child so early on in their school life.

We would all be looking for possible triggers for the behaviour and talking to the SENDCO to see what support and strategies could be put into place. The focus would be on doing whatever we could to help the child to settle and feel secure, and looking at referrals to relevant professionals where needed.

If the school have raced ahead to exclusion without putting other strategies in place first, I would also be wondering whether they'd similarly rushed into restraining the child without first trying other options.

Yep
LolaSmiles · 21/09/2021 21:32

If said child is attacking other children and having to be restrained by adults, how do you deal with the situation? Do you allow the physical safety of all other children and teachers to be at risk each day?
There's process to follow, de-escalation techniques, moving other children out the room, applying holds/restraints (which should be recorded officially and reported on), time out for the child with a trusted adult, SENCo involvement if required and so on. Schools can also agree part time timetables with parents as part of a wider support plan to reintegrate students back into school.
There's also the option of managed moves, fixed term exclusions, and permanent exclusions avaliable. These all come with due process that needs to be followed.

The issue in the OP's situation is that whether or not the school have been heavy handed in their escalation to a fixed term exclusion, it sounds like they're unofficially excluding her child by getting her to collect them. That's illegal. It also means that they're highly unlikely to be providing work for the duration of the exclusion as well.

Autumndays123 · 21/09/2021 21:32

@PawsNotClaws

If said child is attacking other children and having to be restrained by adults, how do you deal with the situation? Do you allow the physical safety of all other children and teachers to be at risk each day?

You'd start by looking at why this is happening. What's happening just before the attacks? Can we reduce or eliminate those triggers in any way?

Is it a sensory issue with too much noise and too many people? If so, could we reduce the noise with ear defenders and have the child working only with small groups rather than expect them to cope with a whole classroom full of noisy children?

Can we as staff recognise when the child is likely to 'explode'? What's their body language like? Could we arrange for a 'safe space' where the child can go when he's starting to seem overwhelmed? Maybe a pop-up tent, or a den we've made in the home corner?

There's so much that a school should be doing and considering before exclusion. (And yes, I've been on the receiving end of many kicks/punches/ and objects aimed at me in the classroom!).

No, you start by making sure the other children are safe. You can then start looking at helping the child. Which I think is what the school have done here? His behaviour was, in the OPs words, escalating on a daily basis, where he is attacking other children and needing to be restrained. He was sent home for the weekend and now they have started working with him to reintegrate him into the learning environment and giving him support?
orinocosfavoritecake · 21/09/2021 21:34

It sounds like he’s scared - there’s something about school that’s overwhelming for him. This is much easier said than done, but the trick will be to figure out what that is. An occupational therapist or speech and language therapist might be able to help.

In the meantime, have you come across the explosive child/collaborative problem solving approach? I’ve found it useful - the starting premise is that instead of tackling the behaviour you go upstream and try to figure out what the lagging skills are that are causing him to struggle.

So instead of saying ‘don’t pinch’ you say ‘You’re finding it difficult being at school (actually it’s better if you can make it more precise than that.) What’s up?’ The facebook ‘b team’ group is helpful.

He’s not a bad kid and you’re not a bad parent - he’s just hit a situation he can’t handle.

virgomama95 · 21/09/2021 21:35

@Autumndays123

Ok, so not restraining on a daily basis, but violent incidents on a daily basis? Hence why you said escalating behaviour on a daily basis, worse than pinching? I understand you want to protect your child OP, but it's difficult to give an accurate opinion on whether the school have been heavy handed, when you're purposely being vague to disguise how bad your child's behaviour actually is.
I'm not quite sure what else you need to know.

I think you have given more than enough advice, like others. It has all been really insightful. Thank you.

Will endeavour to work with the school for better days.

OP posts:
overworkedrobot · 21/09/2021 21:44

LolaSmiles but my original post said "Part time timetables such as this are illegal whether or not parents agree." The important part being such as this. In this case such a part time timetable is illegal, as confirmed by @prh47bridge.

cansu · 21/09/2021 21:47

Just to say I am not unsympathetic, my dd has asd and there were incidents. She did however have support and a behaviour support plan. Your ds needs the right support. I would use this exclusion to help get this in place. I would start looking at gathering evidence that he does need support.

prh47bridge · 21/09/2021 21:47

If said child is attacking other children and having to be restrained by adults, how do you deal with the situation? Do you allow the physical safety of all other children and teachers to be at risk each day?

Before any exclusion you consider if there are underlying factors that should be addressed. You request external support. You request an SEN assessment. You may request a multi-agency assessment if appropriate. You put 1:1 supervision in place if necessary.

A 5-year-old boy is not putting the safety of teachers at serious risk. You make sure you are protecting the other children and you deal with the issue in a way that puts this child's welfare front and centre.

Exclusion is not the only weapon in the school's armour. Because of the detrimental effect on the child, it a fixed term exclusion should be used sparingly when other, less severe measures have failed. A permanent exclusion should be the last resort.

This school has gone for a fixed term exclusion far too quickly. It isn't clear what other measures have been tried but, given the speed with which they have resorted to exclusion, they clearly haven't done anything like all they should to avoid exclusion. And what they are doing now is an illegal exclusion. There is always an alternative to breaking the law.

This school is doing what is easy for them. That is not what they are paid to do. It is not what they are required to do by law.

prh47bridge · 21/09/2021 21:51

@virgomama95 - Clearly your child's behaviour needs to be addressed but, as per my earlier posts, the way the school is going about it is completely wrong. That makes me question whether this school is really committed to doing what is best for your child. They seem to be doing what is easiest for them. Read my posts and consider carefully what you want to do.

Okarava · 21/09/2021 21:58

Hi
I am in exactly same situation. My child just turned 4 and teacher told us ( without choice) to collect my son at 11:20 .
Than from week 2 they have meeting with us and told my son can only be part time as he has difficulties.
We did not agree to this and straight away my son started to beat all kids and staff.
So we told them that we will be not sending our child to them anymore.
I hate such teachers as I think they have to choose another job ( for example cleaning) if they are not able to manage a small child.
I am sure they are just after funding.
Maybe try another school! I hope all people are different and you can find really good and cleaver teacher.

orinocosfavoritecake · 21/09/2021 21:59

OP - it might be an idea to ask if this can be moved to the SN section. Posters there have a lot of experience with this sort of situation.

Autumndays123 · 21/09/2021 22:02

@Okarava

Hi I am in exactly same situation. My child just turned 4 and teacher told us ( without choice) to collect my son at 11:20 . Than from week 2 they have meeting with us and told my son can only be part time as he has difficulties. We did not agree to this and straight away my son started to beat all kids and staff. So we told them that we will be not sending our child to them anymore. I hate such teachers as I think they have to choose another job ( for example cleaning) if they are not able to manage a small child. I am sure they are just after funding. Maybe try another school! I hope all people are different and you can find really good and cleaver teacher.
Wow! You think teachers should be cleaners (clearly you mean that in a vile, judgemental way) because they struggle with your violent child? Words fail me.
Autumndays123 · 21/09/2021 22:03

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newmum1976 · 21/09/2021 22:03

I just wanted to respond as we were in this situation last year. My son had just turned 4 and couldn’t settle in school. He didn’t listen to any instructions and had several instances of pushing, hitting and throwing toys. My son was never excluded but was removed from the classroom to sit with the head or deputy for the afternoon, on many occasions.

I asked for a part time timetable, so for 4 weeks my son did mornings only. He was desperate to do full days, but we explained to him that he could only do so if he followed the rules.

He went full time after half term, and settled fine. He was like a different child after that, and ended the year with a great report.

NailsNeedDoing · 21/09/2021 22:07

The legal position on this is sadly not at all connected to the reality of the situation. While the school could and should be able to provide full time 1-1 support instantly if that’s what a child needs, they can’t. They can’t just magic up extra staff instantly from nowhere, these things take time.

Reception children already need a lot of support at this time of the year, if one child is in need of so much attention to keep himself and the others safe that they need a whole extra adult, what can they be expected to do? They are making a teacher available for him 1-1 for an hour every day, they are not doing nothing. It could well be that this is the best way for your son to cope with everything that goes with starting school. As long as they are engaging and trying to get support and come up with a plan, I can’t see how it would do any good to fight them and antagonise the relationship at this stage.

twilightermummy · 21/09/2021 22:10

Op, try not to despair. Two of mine were very difficult in Reception. My daughter is an August baby and just wasn’t ready whereas my son is pure stubborn and wants his own way. I have raised concerns of potential autism. Anyway, with both, entering year 1 was a different kettle of fish. Something clicked. Maybe it’s maturity or a different teacher, I’m unsure but they’re both much better now. However, they both have their days. My son was banana lifted in yesterday (he’d been doing so well so it was a shame) and my daughter cried going in! She’s 7!

I’m very surprised at your school’s reaction as my school wouldn’t offer a reduced timetable even if I wanted one! We’re also not at a school with many SEN or pupil premium (not that that should have anything to do with it) so I’m unsure why yours have jumped to this. I’d be looking at moving as it’s highly likely that they won’t let it be now they’ve started.

Kite22 · 21/09/2021 22:11

A 5-year-old boy is not putting the safety of teachers at serious risk.

You don't know that.
I have worked with plenty of dc of 5 (and under) who have injured staff.
Plus of course, schools do not have spare staff to be able to "protect the other children". Lets not forget he is incredibly unlikely to be the only dc in the class with SEND, it isn't so easy to ask 29 other brand new 4 year olds to just remove themselves from the room and calmly walk to {wherever you are planning to send them}

Before any exclusion you consider if there are underlying factors that should be addressed. You request external support. You request an SEN assessment. You may request a multi-agency assessment if appropriate. You put 1:1 supervision in place if necessary.

Your knowledge on this boards is superb prh47bridge - legendary in fact _ I rarely remember other posters names but you are one of the exceptions. You help so many families, but you can't be so naïve as to really think that schools can rustle these things up at the snap of someone's fingers?
Perhaps they are trying to get some support from the LA as we speak ?

toomuchlaundry · 21/09/2021 22:21

If a child gets really distressed in a school situation is it really best for them to be in school full-time? Yes one hour a week seems far too short but there must be a middle ground whilst school and parents can come up with a plan

Mumontheschoolrun · 21/09/2021 22:26

The school has legal duties and they need to comply with them.