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Child misbehaviour in reception - excluded and reduced timetable by wk 2. Too strict or proportionate measures?

168 replies

virgomama95 · 21/09/2021 19:02

I was a little worried about how my son would settle in school. They seemed to be doing okay and happy, but I endeavoured to check by day 3. Teacher said child was a joy but struggled to listen sometimes, yet today had been much better and had been showered in stickers for doing so. I wish I had savoured that feedback because what followed was absolute turmoil for us.

Day 4, we were pulled in for a quick after school chat and the teacher told us that our child had pinched another child. Unacceptable of course and we spoke to our child about keeping your hands to yourself. However, day 5, I receive a call from the school about our child's behaviour again - and issues such as not listening, flippant responses and hurting other children (and teachers - in an overwhelmed panic) were brought up. They even used the word 'exclusion' in a sentence about how they were not thinking about it at this point, yet I hadn't brought it up, so the 'reassurance' had more of the opposite effect. They called every day after day 5 - our child's behaviour was escalating. Our child was strong willed and sometimes difficult in nursery but these incidents were far and few in between and nothing on this scale. Our child had plenty of friends in nursery but the teachers said in a meeting (Wed, week 2) that the other children were giving him a 'wide birth', I felt destroyed. My child was suffering, he had gotten into such a state (thurs, week 2) that they were restrained and I had to pick them up (less than 2 hours after their arrival). Our child was excluded on Thursday and was given the weekend to recover. Our child is now on 1 hour a week in a 1-1 situation which is supposed to be for bonding and trust, yet this teacher is actually the only one available for that week and usually works with year 2.

My question is, is this proportionate or is this just too early? I feel like an extra support teacher, monitoring during playtime etc. could have happened before this. How is this beneficial for our child's development, classroom integration, social boundaries etc? I'm stuck between defending ourselves and wanting to cooperate, so I haven't questioned the schools methods as of yet.

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EL8888 · 21/09/2021 20:00

He was hurting other children and teachers. The school have a duty of care to the other children and teachers

Mymapuddlington · 21/09/2021 20:00

Hi, I have been where you are.
Firstly, your child by LAW is entitled to a full time education which he is not getting. Press for this. Illegal exclusions such as ‘he can only attend for an hour or can you pick him up early’ have it all in writing.

Get an ehcp in place where the school details how they are meeting his needs, you get your say as well so can say what he needs or what you feel would help him.

Do not let them illegally exclude him like they are doing. Call the local authority and sendiass and ask for help in getting him an education. If School say they can’t meet needs research other schools, do not deregister him.

My son was excluded illegally (could only do 9-10am Monday to Wednesday) hundreds and hundreds of times. He was permanently excluded at 5 years old.
He is now nearly 12 and we are still fighting for a school place which, everything crossed, should be happening soon. Good luck x

LolaSmiles · 21/09/2021 20:02

overworkedrobot
Imposing a part time timetable is illegal.
Agreeing a part time timetable with parents for a period of time wth a plan of reviewing it and using the time to take steps to support a child back into full time education is allowed.

Threearm · 21/09/2021 20:07

This is incredibly heavy handed. In all honesty I would remove my child and run a mile, he functioned well in nursery.

Only allowing him an hour a week is obscene, not good enough at all. You will have inclusion services within your LA who may be able to help.

If on Facebook operation diversity are amazing. They have a free group and honestly you won't get any more sound advice.

Autumndays123 · 21/09/2021 20:08

It may be that the school did not have many other options. I've tried to imagine the situation from the perspective of another parent. If someone with they behaviour you describe your son displays was in my child's class and was so violent/aggressive he needed to be restrained, I would be on the phone threatening to take things further if the school did not sort the issue. You son clearly needs help, but it cannot be at the expense of every other child around him.

I then tried to imagine being the teacher. It must be very difficult teaching a class of 4/5 year olds who are new to school and having to constantly watch one child who kept attacking other children, and the staff! A teacher is not going to be able to teach if they are having to physically restrain your child. That's not fair on anyone.

I'm not qualified to suggest a way to resolve this, but I think it's unfair to suggest the school are being heavy handed. How many days of this child attacking others can pass before he is excluded?

Threearm · 21/09/2021 20:08

@el8888 they have a duty of care to this child too. They literally can not do this without evidencing they have tried everything possible

GingerAndTheBiscuits · 21/09/2021 20:10

Despite being below CSA if DS is out of school due to being excluded the LA are res indigos for providing education.

I don’t think they are. The guidance says “From the sixth day of an exclusion, suitable full-time education must be arranged for pupils of compulsory school age”. The section 19 duty to secure education only applies to compulsory school age. But the guidance about how an exclusion should be carried out by the school does apply to a child below CSA.

cansu · 21/09/2021 20:12

I think there is quite a bit of info missing here. What has he actually been excluded for? What kind of things has he done to the teacher and other children?
There is a massive difference between a pinch when told not to do something or shoving another child who gets in the way to a punch or a deliberate and sustained piece of aggression. I was all set to say they had been heavy handed but you have been a bit vague about what he actually did. If the school are unable to calm him and he is being very violent then they may have no choice. You may not want to give this level of detail but it is difficult to judge how proportionate the school are being without this.

NameChange30 · 21/09/2021 20:14

In addition to requesting a meeting with the SENDCo and contacting the council's SENDIAS service for advice, I would start researching other schools so you know what the options are if you are not able to find a solution with the current school. I would be looking at the schools' % of students with SEND, reading their policies on SEND and behaviour management, and asking the school about how they help new reception children (and other children starting at other times) with the transition, including how they manage challenging behaviour.

virgomama95 · 21/09/2021 20:16

@cansu

I think there is quite a bit of info missing here. What has he actually been excluded for? What kind of things has he done to the teacher and other children? There is a massive difference between a pinch when told not to do something or shoving another child who gets in the way to a punch or a deliberate and sustained piece of aggression. I was all set to say they had been heavy handed but you have been a bit vague about what he actually did. If the school are unable to calm him and he is being very violent then they may have no choice. You may not want to give this level of detail but it is difficult to judge how proportionate the school are being without this.
It was more, in any parents/professionals experience, is this proportionately balanced between the needs of other children and my child's needs.

I feel there is enough info there.

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Autumndays123 · 21/09/2021 20:19

I have to disagree that there is enough info. For example, has he pinched a couple of children, shoved teachers or accidentally hurt others whilst having a tantrum? Or are we talking hitting, scratching, biting, kicking other children and teachers on a regular basis? It's quite clear one may be considered heavy handed and one not so much

Lasttimeneveragain · 21/09/2021 20:21

I have to admit that I am forming the conclusion that your child's behaviour must have been quite aggressive for the school to be considering this type of reaction so soon. Hitting other children and a teacher this early doesn't bode well.

What we're the incidents at nursery? How were they managed?

ANameChangeAgain · 21/09/2021 20:24

Could he be suffering with anxiety @virgomama95? Just wondering if the behaviour has escalated and this has become his cry for help? Its as though its building up inside him and the only way to let it out is to lash out.
I kind of don't blame the school for taking him out of the class room environment, as they have to protect the other, but I think he needs intervention, not exclusion.
Can you afford a private councillor?
We have to remember that school age children have suffered the most with lockdowns. They have missed vital socialisation and cannot always pick up where they left off.

overworkedrobot · 21/09/2021 20:25

LolaSmiles Part time timetables are only legal when they are short term with the aim of reintegration. See here and here. The part time timetable in the OP's case doesn't sound like its aim is reintegration since a time limit isn't in place and there is no plan to increase DS's hours or integrate him with his class or teacher, especially when it follows an exclusion.

Ginger Apologies, you are correct, I wrongly posted they are responsible for education when I was thinking the exclusion guidance still applies.

MichelleScarn · 21/09/2021 20:25

Will they not have to write a report given they had to restrain him? Are you meaning as in officially training used restraint hold?

EL8888 · 21/09/2021 20:26

@Threearm lm not saying they don’t to him. But if l go to work and hurt my colleagues and / or boss then l get sacked and reported to the police. His needs don’t mean other people can be hurt or that it can be condoned

HotPenguin · 21/09/2021 20:35

This doesn't sound right to me, unless the violence and bad behaviour is way more than you have said. They should be trying to identify what's causing your son's behaviour, is he anxious, overstimulated,struggling to cope with transitions? I would take a guess this stuff is happening at transitions. So they should be preparing the whole class really well for transitions and getting the TA close to your son to support him and head off problems at those times.

Glitterbaby17 · 21/09/2021 20:35

This sounds incredibly difficult for you OP. What has your son said about what happened? If he’s able to give any idea what sparked that reaction from him or even just how he felt before things got heated that may help you agree a plan with the school.

It’s difficult because as others have said there is a balance between meeting your sons needs and the rest of the class. I feel that in the first term of reception when the focus is on adjusting to school mitigating the risk of the other children becoming afraid of school or having negative associations is important.

It sounds like last week they were all on half days, this week your son has 1 hour and the others are full time. If doing this for a week or 2 will enable an experienced year 2 teacher to spend dedicated time with your son, understand his strengths, weaknesses and stressors, whilst safeguarding the rest of the class I would say it’s a fair plan, especially if they’ve consulted a specialist. What I would want to see from it is a clear plan back to full time, including sensible targets for your son.

I may be unfair but I have a daughter who has just started reception and is in her first week of full days. Another child took against her and has been pushing her, pulling her hair spilled paint over her new coat, and yesterday hit her so hard it left a bruise under her eye and smashed another little girl who tried to defend her into a wall. She is petrified to go to school having been so excited. She is summer born so if things don’t improve I may pull her out and defer to stop her hating school. The school are ‘working with the other child’ and have some steps like making sure the pair of them are not in the same small groups or unsupervised. I am sure the other child has reasons for behaving like this and am sympathetic but also devastated that this is causing my bright happy girl to sob about going to school.

It’s tricky. I have every sympathy for you and your son - I think I’d be concentrating on understanding what was causing the behaviour change if at all possible. This must also be very distressing for him.

cookingisoverrated · 21/09/2021 20:36

He's 5, so entitled to a full time education.

I would push back. 1 hour per week is heavy handed over-reaction and unreasonable from where I'm sitting. They need to support him and get their SENCO lead involved by the sounds of it.

NailsNeedDoing · 21/09/2021 20:40

They won’t have done this lightly, so I don’t think it’s worth trying to get into a fight with them to make him have full time hours straight away. That clearly wouldn’t be in your sons best interests because they can’t cope adequately enough for any of the children at the moment.

Work with the school and get advice from others who have children that have undiagnosed SEN, there will be support out there.

flippertyop · 21/09/2021 20:45

There are probably twenty other kids in his class and the teachers say he is uncontrollable. They obviously think he is a danger to other kids (physically) and disrupting their education. I doubt they take this decision lightly. I think you need to prepare yourself for a Rocky ride because if he is like this at 5 goodness knows what he will be like at 12. I think you need to ask for a referral for specialist help.

cabbageking · 21/09/2021 20:46

They also have a duty to keep other children and staff safe.

I would be asking what their next steps are, what support they are able to access, how they are monitoring what is and is not working and when and if they have reviewed additional funding and support.
Do they have the staff for his needs and if not what are they considering. If his behaviour is the barrier to learning they will focus on this first.

Threearm · 21/09/2021 20:48

I like how people automatically support schools. Clearly haven't supported many parents in schools who really do massively fail children. Schools aren't always right, sadly far too many schools try and wash their hands at the very first sign. He has been there a max of 3 weeks and was OK in nursery. They need to support him better, not a pathetic 1 hour a week. You really need good advice from people who know what they are talking about.

virgomama95 · 21/09/2021 20:48

@Autumndays123

I have to disagree that there is enough info. For example, has he pinched a couple of children, shoved teachers or accidentally hurt others whilst having a tantrum? Or are we talking hitting, scratching, biting, kicking other children and teachers on a regular basis? It's quite clear one may be considered heavy handed and one not so much
All the info is as much detail as the school gave.

The pinching incident was because another child didn't want to share.

The incidents with adults (2 I think) was while in an overwhelmed state, so not intentional.

Definitely a difference between children and adults - hurting children seems to be more intentional, always seems to be because he thinks this person did wrong or that person didn't do what he wanted.

We spoke with him about accepting that sometimes things that upset us happen but there are certain ways of dealing with it and that only adults can tell people off etc. So any issues, tell a teacher (he had been hit by another student but did not raise this issue so teacher so he is yet to see how 'telling the teacher' can help him). What worries me is that we have talks, he agrees and is excited to have a better day at school the next day, goes in happy. Then I always get a call that he had a bad day.

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