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Child misbehaviour in reception - excluded and reduced timetable by wk 2. Too strict or proportionate measures?

168 replies

virgomama95 · 21/09/2021 19:02

I was a little worried about how my son would settle in school. They seemed to be doing okay and happy, but I endeavoured to check by day 3. Teacher said child was a joy but struggled to listen sometimes, yet today had been much better and had been showered in stickers for doing so. I wish I had savoured that feedback because what followed was absolute turmoil for us.

Day 4, we were pulled in for a quick after school chat and the teacher told us that our child had pinched another child. Unacceptable of course and we spoke to our child about keeping your hands to yourself. However, day 5, I receive a call from the school about our child's behaviour again - and issues such as not listening, flippant responses and hurting other children (and teachers - in an overwhelmed panic) were brought up. They even used the word 'exclusion' in a sentence about how they were not thinking about it at this point, yet I hadn't brought it up, so the 'reassurance' had more of the opposite effect. They called every day after day 5 - our child's behaviour was escalating. Our child was strong willed and sometimes difficult in nursery but these incidents were far and few in between and nothing on this scale. Our child had plenty of friends in nursery but the teachers said in a meeting (Wed, week 2) that the other children were giving him a 'wide birth', I felt destroyed. My child was suffering, he had gotten into such a state (thurs, week 2) that they were restrained and I had to pick them up (less than 2 hours after their arrival). Our child was excluded on Thursday and was given the weekend to recover. Our child is now on 1 hour a week in a 1-1 situation which is supposed to be for bonding and trust, yet this teacher is actually the only one available for that week and usually works with year 2.

My question is, is this proportionate or is this just too early? I feel like an extra support teacher, monitoring during playtime etc. could have happened before this. How is this beneficial for our child's development, classroom integration, social boundaries etc? I'm stuck between defending ourselves and wanting to cooperate, so I haven't questioned the schools methods as of yet.

OP posts:
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Embroidery · 21/09/2021 22:33

Move school. Some infant schools are ridiculously strict.
You and DS are better out of it.

virgomama95 · 21/09/2021 22:37

@twilightermummy

Op, try not to despair. Two of mine were very difficult in Reception. My daughter is an August baby and just wasn’t ready whereas my son is pure stubborn and wants his own way. I have raised concerns of potential autism. Anyway, with both, entering year 1 was a different kettle of fish. Something clicked. Maybe it’s maturity or a different teacher, I’m unsure but they’re both much better now. However, they both have their days. My son was banana lifted in yesterday (he’d been doing so well so it was a shame) and my daughter cried going in! She’s 7!

I’m very surprised at your school’s reaction as my school wouldn’t offer a reduced timetable even if I wanted one! We’re also not at a school with many SEN or pupil premium (not that that should have anything to do with it) so I’m unsure why yours have jumped to this. I’d be looking at moving as it’s highly likely that they won’t let it be now they’ve started.

That has been my exact worry from the start. If this is the level they have reached, surely it will only escalate from here.

I WISH (and have wished/prayed/everything!) that I could guarantee consistent good behaviour but unfortunately I cannot. He is great at home and we have bought a caseload of 'expressing my feelings books' and other good choice story books, but apart from positive stimulation I cannot physically BE at the school (trust me - I asked).

There is a mainstream school close by that has a larger SEND population and relevant resources. I'm working with the school tirelessly and will not give up or blame the school easily, but we are prepared to look elsewhere. Not just for my sons benefit but for his current schools and classmates too. We all just want the best for our children.

OP posts:
Droite · 21/09/2021 22:43

@LolaSmiles

overworkedrobot Imposing a part time timetable is illegal. Agreeing a part time timetable with parents for a period of time wth a plan of reviewing it and using the time to take steps to support a child back into full time education is allowed.
No, it isn't, technically. The law says every child should receive full time education. If a child can only spend part time in school, then the school and/or the local authority should supplement that by something like home tuition. However, the reality is that the only people able to do anything about an illegal part time timetable are the parents, and obviously if they agree a part time timetable they're not likely to challenge it.
Droite · 21/09/2021 22:45

OP, it would be worth reading the DfEducation guidance on exclusions - www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-exclusion. It emphasises again and again that before thinking about excluding a child with possible SEN the school should be exploring the SEN and getting advice on what they should be doing to provide support. It sounds like you might need to remind the school of what the guidance says.

Okarava · 21/09/2021 22:53

It is very strange for me how experienced teacher can not manage small child???
All kids are different and the teachers are there to support our kids but not to exclude!
I am feeling very sorry for all those small kids and my little one someone said violent.
If you are choosing to be a teacher please take responsibility and do your job properly.
I can’t be 15 autistic kids in one class definitely!

User135792468 · 21/09/2021 23:01

@Okarava Yes, those pesky teachers need to just put up with abuse and allow other children to get hurt and just get on with their job right? People like you seriously irritate me. You have no clue what it is like in a classroom quite clearly.

Op, work with the school. Ask for specifics. It sounds like he was quite a handful. Ime, they only go down the route they have when they have serious concerns about being able to keep their own staff safe and safeguard the other children. It sounds like your ds got himself awfully worked up to need to be restrained. Work with the school and get a plan in place. Try and get a diagnosis if you think he may have something as this will give the school extra funds to support him. Please don’t let it get you down. You’ll get through this and so will he, he’s just having a more difficult start than others.

SE13Mummy · 21/09/2021 23:04

Sorry you and your DS have had such a rocky start to his school career; it must be really hard for you both to feel excluded before he's had a chance to settle and to be successful in Reception. From what you've described, it does sound as though the school's knee-jerk response has been one of wider damage limitation for the wider Reception class rather than a response that best meets your DS's needs.

You have identified a couple of situations your DS finds tricky whether at home or at nursery and you have strategies in place to help him manage these. I would have expected this information to have been shared with the primary school and a plan put in place to support your DS to successfully settle in Reception e.g. pre-visits, social story written and given to him to explain how school works, what to do if things go wrong/he's feeling worried etc., identification of a quiet spot/trusted adult he can go to. I would have also expected that these provisions would have been balanced out so he is also clear on how he can tell he's doing the right thing at school, how the adults will let him know they are pleased with him etc. etc. Ideally, this would be in a very visual, child-friendly format to support understanding. Whilst it may take a bit more time for your DS to settle into Reception, I would expect this to be negotiated with you and based upon your DS's needs e.g. if he can manage until 1pm every day but by 1.15pm he's finding it stressful and you would rather he was at home, great. Or if he copes well for the whole week but Friday is one day too much and he's exhausted, I would hope the school would agree if you were to request he stay home on Fridays for the time being. If you believe it is in your DS's interests to be in school full-time, the school needs to take that on board and do its absolute best to make it work. That may involve seeking support from the LA inclusion and/or SEN team.

It may be helpful for you to record, in writing, the strategies you use/the nursery used and to email these to the SENCo and headteacher. Explain that you would like your DS to attend school for X hours a day (whatever you feel is appropriate), that you would like to meet with the school and representative of the LA (inclusion or SEN lead, pastoral support officer or similar) as a matter of urgency in order your DS can attend school and his
needs be met. State that you are disappointed that he appears to have been sanctioned when he lashed out in a state of overwhelm and ask that a consistent response ladder/behaviour support plan/whatever is implemented so DS knows exactly where he stands, so all adults respond in the same way to his behaviours and so any exclusions are proportionate and in line with the school's behaviour policy. Be clear that you want to work with the school for DS to settle but that you are not in agreement with the effective exclusion of him for all but five hours per week.

B1rthis · 21/09/2021 23:08

They restrained your child.
Did you consent to this?
They are not his parents, you are.

He pinched a child and you followed through with discipline.
The adults sound like they're bullying your child.

I would remove him from school and get his side of the story.

Okarava · 21/09/2021 23:13

Just they have to be more patient with kids I mean . If someone will force you to do something you never done before you will react the same way as this child.
I was working alone with 20 small kids not in this country and I know what I am taking about.
But I never sent a child home, and no one was injured.
I saw my child escorted to the gate by those two teachers and my child tried to look at them smile and say something but their faces were so miserable!!!
Ok That’s just my experience and my opinion so please you don’t need to take to close.

prh47bridge · 21/09/2021 23:50

Your knowledge on this boards is superb prh47bridge - legendary in fact _ I rarely remember other posters names but you are one of the exceptions. You help so many families, but you can't be so naïve as to really think that schools can rustle these things up at the snap of someone's fingers?

No, they can't rustle them up at the snap of someone's fingers but the government guidance is clear that no exclusions, temporary or permanent, should happen until they have done these things.

prh47bridge · 21/09/2021 23:53

@B1rthis

They restrained your child. Did you consent to this? They are not his parents, you are.

He pinched a child and you followed through with discipline.
The adults sound like they're bullying your child.

I would remove him from school and get his side of the story.

Schools do not require parental consent to use reasonable force on a pupil. Even if a parent specifically forbids a school from doing so, the school is still entitled to restrain a child if it is necessary.
Okarava · 22/09/2021 00:00

Never been snapping anybody fingers! just let the child time to settle, just take a child aside and speak to child.
Unfortunately teacher will always be right and our kids will injure them 😂
Why not to allow parents to help them, why they don’t allow to see how your child making ham to them??? I would be very happy to see it and no questions then.
Please don’t refer to the regulations and law.
Or maybe I will hurt them as well?

prh47bridge · 22/09/2021 00:08

@NailsNeedDoing - The legal position on this is sadly not at all connected to the reality of the situation

If the law and/or government guidance were unworkable I would have some sympathy for the school, but I know many primary schools that have dealt with similarly challenging behaviour and worse without resorting to inappropriate and illegal exclusions. So no, I do not accept that the legal position is unconnected to the reality of the situation.

Okarava · 22/09/2021 00:18

When we asked for the letter they have refused to provide any letter.could anyone suggest why?

toomuchlaundry · 22/09/2021 00:26

Surely it depends on the school size etc too though. Some environments are just not suitable for some children. Schools that are so stretched for space/staff so there is nowhere quiet they can retreat to.

Full, dark cramped classrooms. Schools that have no general TAs. Heads that also have to teach. Where are they going to magic up that spare member of staff to look after a child who needs additional supervision?

Okarava · 22/09/2021 00:44

Why than admit child to school and claim all funding on the child behalf???
If there’s no facility for all kids so tell this to parents and then at least the parents can arrange the alternative.
Not all parents are staying at home and have possibly to come and collect child from school.
There should be some law in place as well to protect parents and kids
Another topic about child assessment: I tried to call paediatrician clinic which school told no reply, went to them all closed.Very funny situation is it?
Maybe will get referred by GP in 3 months and then in 6 months any further plans.
I don’t think will need it by then.

I can just say to the mum who has almost same situation as mine:
Your child is the best and you done all your best!
Just apply for another school and maybe not all schools are short of staffed and they will find correct approach to your child.
We have decided to place our child back to nursery and will never go back to that school.
Law is law but all are human and our kids as well and they might feel as well frustrating sometimes.

Mumontheschoolrun · 22/09/2021 00:46

@toomuchlaundry many really good schools have excellent practice on sn. It is doable with the right support and planning

Strictly1 · 22/09/2021 06:02

@B1rthis

They restrained your child. Did you consent to this? They are not his parents, you are.

He pinched a child and you followed through with discipline.
The adults sound like they're bullying your child.

I would remove him from school and get his side of the story.

They were stopping him from hurting himself and others - the classic signs of a bully. Should they have watched and some nothing so as to not be accused of bullying?
Threearm · 22/09/2021 07:31

Just as a point my local authority recently had an ofsted and one of the things criticised for (amongst many!) Was that they don't do enough to stop schools using inappropriate exclusions. Exclusions should be the last result not the first.

My 4 year old was bit on his first day of school a few weeks back, he was upset and I was upset and the school assured me they put a plan in place re the biter. There hasn't been an issue since but the child certainly didn't need to be excluded or only in 1 hour a day.

StarsOnMyPants · 22/09/2021 07:47

If said child is attacking other children and having to be restrained by adults, how do you deal with the situation? Do you allow the physical safety of all other children and teachers to be at risk each day?

We've had so much of this behaviour in our outstanding school in a leafy neighbourhood over the years, I'm actually impressed with your school. It's hard to be at the receiving end but hopefully it flags these issues with your son and he will be able to access specialist support and explore a diagnosis if appropriate.

Throughout reception and year 1 a boy smacked my dd in the face, pushed and shoved her when she was queuing to get back into the classroom, shoved her away from the sink when she was trying to wash her hands, got up doing carpet time and smacked her face so hard that he left a trace. He was old in the year, she was one of the youngest.

I still, from the bottom of my heart, hate the headteacher who was trying to convince me there was not much that could be done and tried to pull the wool over my eyes with patronising management speak about the non action she took.

Luckily that boy left after year 1 and the head teacher got a promotion at another school.

I don't blame the boy as he clearly must have had additional needs and a complex home life but the headteacher? She can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned. It's gut wrenching when your child gets physically abused in the classroom and there is nothing you can do as you're not there. If the boy hadn't left, I would have taken dd out of the school. Too many schools just turn a blind eye.

Work with the school, insist on a meeting with the SENCO. Other than that, I'm sorry but your son has a damaging influence on the other children's at school. There will be kids that have nightmares about him, as was the case in my dd's class. A couple of girls also were physically abused by this boy and suffered from anxiety, nightmares and didn't want to go to school. You should really try and think about that side of things before being cross with the school.

TweetyPieBird · 22/09/2021 08:21

@virgomama95 The pinching incident was because another child didn't want to share.

You said that your son has hurt other DC and teachers. This is absolutely unacceptable. He is damaging others’ (DC and adults) experience at school. He shouldn’t hurt other people just because things don’t go his way. How do you engage him at home? Is he left to his own devices and does he always get his own way of he has a tantrum? Instead of blaming the school and other DC, you need to think about what YOU can do.

DancesWithTortoises · 22/09/2021 08:41

It seems to me that the school are trying to "reset" your DS's behaviour.

Once he can cope with an hour at a time and is no longer violent to others they will expand his time in school.

Teachers and classmates have a right not to be subjected to violence, no matter what the cause. That has to be the priority at the moment.

Autumndays123 · 22/09/2021 08:47

[quote TweetyPieBird]**@virgomama95* The pinching incident was because another child didn't want to share.*

You said that your son has hurt other DC and teachers. This is absolutely unacceptable. He is damaging others’ (DC and adults) experience at school. He shouldn’t hurt other people just because things don’t go his way. How do you engage him at home? Is he left to his own devices and does he always get his own way of he has a tantrum? Instead of blaming the school and other DC, you need to think about what YOU can do.[/quote]
Agree with this. The way OP writes, you can tell she minimises her son's behaviour. It's extremely difficult to help a child see their behaviour is not acceptable, when you're writing things like he hit a child because the child "wouldn't share". That is not 'explaining' what happened, as you state, the language used quite clearly shows that you think he had a genuine reason for hitting them. Wouldn't share? You mean your son tried to remove something from another child? Or even, they were arguing over a toy and your son hit them? Much better non-biased ways of explaining what happened without an accusatory tone towards the other child.

prh47bridge · 22/09/2021 08:49

Teachers and classmates have a right not to be subjected to violence, no matter what the cause. That has to be the priority at the moment.

They do and no-one is saying otherwise. But there is a right way to deal with this and a wrong way. Resorting to illegal exclusions is the wrong way. Going to even a fixed term exclusion without exploring other routes is wrong and potentially a breach of the Equality Act.

The OP is not arguing that her child is perfect. She is clear that there are issues that need to be dealt with. That does not mean we should blindly support the school when it is acting in this way. If the school was dealing with this appropriately it would have my full support. It isn't.

Autumndays123 · 22/09/2021 08:59

@prh47bridge

Teachers and classmates have a right not to be subjected to violence, no matter what the cause. That has to be the priority at the moment.

They do and no-one is saying otherwise. But there is a right way to deal with this and a wrong way. Resorting to illegal exclusions is the wrong way. Going to even a fixed term exclusion without exploring other routes is wrong and potentially a breach of the Equality Act.

The OP is not arguing that her child is perfect. She is clear that there are issues that need to be dealt with. That does not mean we should blindly support the school when it is acting in this way. If the school was dealing with this appropriately it would have my full support. It isn't.

They excluded the child for one day before the support plan was started? Are you for real? He attacked children in the classroom, was removed from the class and then had to be physically restrained because of his reaction. What are they supposed to do? Asking him to stay home for a day whilst they start putting something in place is a non issue.

Put it this way, as I said earlier, if my child was in that classroom and was being attacked daily by another, I would be on that phone every single day demanding the child is permanently excluded. If the school refused to do so, I would complain as far as humanely possible, emphasising how the school are not protecting my child. I would then revert to newspapers and social media if my child continued being attacked and I would not stop until they were safe. I imagine there will be plenty of other people who feel like me in the sons class, although I accept it's an unpopular opinion, and I would be gobsmacked if he was already not the subject of a series of complaints from parents