Primary school offered place at C of E school

[Emma2021]

Morning

Our grandson who will be about 4yrs 6 months old in Sept 2021 has been offered a place at a C 0f E school. Presently he goes to a nursery within the London borough they live in but there are 10 others on the waiting list for that school so he has been offered this c of e school.

Two reasons why his parents inc us do not want him to go there. First is religion as we are not C 0f E and no disrespect to anyone and secondly he is used to the nursery and that is a non Cof E school.

We have noted that several of the ladies that take their children to the c of e school are quite vocal re relgion and 'born again' etc.

We are not ultra relgious, ie all of us but we do not want a C of E school or any other reglios school inc our own faith but a standard school ie one that does not inc name of a relgion/etc.

I do not mean cause offence to anyone and we are relatively open minded but I've met born again and other types of relg people that bang on about religon and we don't.

Many thanks,

If they didn’t want their child to go to a church school, they could have put all non church schools on the application form.
Regarding the child not getting a place in the school where they are at nursery, being in the nursery gives no automatic right to a place in the Reception class. Did the parents appeal for a different school?

Is he on the waiting list for the preferred school? Worth finding out where on the list if so. There is currently a lot of mobility, particularly in London, as lots of people are moving out. As a result, waiting lists seem to be moving a bit quicker than in previous years. You wouldn’t have grounds for appeal but hopefully he’ll be offered a late place. If not, don’t worry about the C of E school. I’m fairly sure the vocal parents would be in the minority and your family will find like minded parents.

Understand why you have concerns. However, if you have been refused a place at the schools on your application form, the Local Authority has a legal duty to offer a place at a school. It is generally the closest one with vacant places.

I chair school admission appeals. Each year, I hear appeals from parents who have been given a place at a faith school and it is against their belief/wishes and vice versa. Offering a place at any publicly funded school fulfils the Local Authority's duty.

Has the family asked the Local Authority if there are any places available at non church schools?

You can request that he is removed from religious worship although that may include nativity plays etc. If your grandson has been allocated that school there will probably be others who also are not Christian.

Both dh and I atheists our kids go to a C o E school.
Their principles are around Christian values which are largely that of tolerance, patience etc they do have daily worship but all schools in this country have that anyway.

They also learn about other religions and eldest been To a mosque and synagogue so it is not exclusive in its teachings.
I wouldn’t be happy with creationist teachings but don’t believe that’s come up.

What are you so concerned about?

You're confusing who is in charge here, and it's not the other parents. ' Ultra religious' and CofE school don't usually get put in the same sentence. Historically, as the national church, the CofE has educated millions of non religious children as it was often the only school around.

The religious bit tends to be done with a light touch ie emphasising values such as kindness, thoughtfulness etc.

But if the parents didn't want this school are you saying they didn't put it on the form?

No-one has the right to a place of a religion/denomination that matches theirs, or to a place with no affiliation.

All schools must provide RE and collective worship, and parents can opt their DC out of either/both.

If this a Reception class appeal, then Infant Class Size rules are very likely to apply. This means that you can only appeal if an error was made and the DC missed out on a place they would have been offered if it had been done properly (unlawful prioritisation, wrong distance measured, sibling link overlooked etc) or if the decision is so unreasonable and perverse (in a legal sense) then no person would let it stand (threshold very high, child protection issues, or placing a child who uses a chair in the only school in miles that is not properly accessible etc)

But why did they put the CofE school on their application? Or did they only put the school they wanted, and have now been randomly allocated a school?

In London there are always plenty of non- religious options.

The majority of English schools have collective worship with a broadly Christian theme. You’d need to contact all local schools and find out which have opted out.

Going to the nursery isn’t going to be grounds for an appeal, unless the child has an EHCP and the school is named.

In many areas in the UK, it's pretty much impossible to truly have a choice where your kids go to school. I'm an atheist and my kids go to the catchment primary school, which is C of E. I wish the Church weren't involved in educating a third of English kids. I wish a daily act of worship were not included in legislation for all schools. But we live in an imperfect world.

On the whole, C of E schools are fine, even for atheists. You'll have to negotiate Easter, which is a little tricky to begin with. But it will be fine.

My eldest was horrified by Easter, though. First we have Christmas. The little baby Jesus is cute, and hangs out with farm animals. Then a couple of months later, he's nailed to a cross. "Mummy did they REALLY nail the baby Jesus to a piece of wood?!" "Yes, my love, but it wasn't quite as horrific as you're imagining, because he was in his mid-30s." Seriously - would we teach four year olds about torture in any other context?!

If the school is good in other ways, I wouldn't let the C of E thing put you off too much.

I went to a C of E school and, apart from singing hymns in assembly & having harvest festival/Christmas Nativity stuff, it was just a normal primary school. They didnt mention religion during lessons or anything.

RE: the religious parents. I'm sure you will meet some parents with differing beliefs/values at whatever school they go to. It's just luck.

Hi
Many thanks all, especially to
@Yellowmellow2
@Wooddie

Noted all comments and will digest and plan way forward.
FYI, we are very familiar with schools/religious assembly etc which we have no objection to but we do object to a school mentioning religion in their title. Just to remind you guys, we would not send our grandson to a school that is the same religion as ours.

@SamMil - thanks, sure you are right and in my school it is what i encountred but not for us ie c of e school/etc

Ultra religious' and CofE school don't usually get put in the same sentence

I’d agree with this. CE schools don’t tend to be ‘ultra religious’

We have noted that several of the ladies that take their children to the c of e school are quite vocal re relgion and 'born again' etc

I do not mean cause offence to anyone and we are relatively open minded but I've met born again and other types of relg people that bang on about religon and we don't.

You can’t control who the other parents are, and you’re going to find varying levels of faith in any school.

I'm a governor at a Community C of E school. That means we are funded by the Local Authority and our admission criteria does not favour applicants with a religious back ground in any way. We are just a local school.

We do talk about God and Jesus sometimes. But equally we reflect the full range if religious and non religious beliefs at the school. So in the last few years we have made sure the children know about the religious festival of Eid, Ramadan, Passover etc -- this is similar to most primary schools anyway.

What is you actual issue with the school? (The child not having been to a nursery class in a school is neither here nor there).

We don't have any schools locally which aren't C of E. Unless you consider private, the convent school or the Plymouth brethren school. I'd have to drive a very long way to get to one. I went to a C of E school too, simply because that's all that was available.

I'm an atheist, my dc are atheists and the religion side of things simply doesn't affect them at all. We celebrate a secular Christmas and like all the stories so that's just a pleasant diversion and other than some Easter stuff, they see it all as some rousing hymns and that's it. Probably 3 of my ds's classmates are withdrawn from assembly and any sporadic church visits and the disruption is negligible.

I'm assuming you didn't get any of your preferences then and you were "assigned" this school as the nearest with spaces? In which case, ask the local authority which schools do have vacancies and apply there, simply because your chances at an Infant class size appeal are pretty remote if the only objection you have is that the school you have been given is Cof E ( and especially when it seems to be the name you have difficulties with, rather that the assemblies or even ethos.)

You’re not giving us the relevant information, I’m not clear what you actually want from this thread.

Did they put this school down as any of their preferences?

They can apply to go on the waiting list for any preferences they were unsuccessful for, or they can request a different school that does have spaces- they will have to get him there though.

To be honest I am not that religious but my son goes and it's not a big deal. They study all sorts of religions and have mourning worship but it's not really a huge thing. Many kids from many backgrounds and religions will likely attend the school.

*morning! (Not mourning)

My ds goes to a c of e school. There is a huge range of cultures and religions within the school as it is the local village school. They have collective worship - which centres on themes like kindness, community, family, respect etc. They do the Christmas nativity story. Other than that there really isn't much difference to my dd's non c of e school.

If you're that bothered then join the waiting lists for other schools, but this isn't as big a deal as you're making it out to be. There are always a few parents who you will completely disagree with in any setting, the fact that this a church one doesn't really change that.

FYI, we are very familiar with schools/religious assembly etc which we have no objection to but we do object to a school mentioning religion in their title

So your objection is the name of the school rather than religious assemblies?

Just to remind you guys, we would not send our grandson to a school that is the same religion as ours.

We? It's not up to you - it's up to the parents. Why are you so involved.

Plenty of Jewish and Muslim kids go to CofE schools by the way.

Poor Op - being given a tough time. Not sure they deserve it really, given the fairly straight forward original post!

@Yellowmellow2

Poor Op - being given a tough time. Not sure they deserve it really, given the fairly straight forward original post!

I think the issue is that the op hadn't asked anything but has complained about the name of the school and some other parents. It's hard to know what they want. Advice on appeals? Waiting lists? Home Ed? Deferring? What happens if they withdraw the child from religious elements? Comparative experiences?

Tbh even normal schools have to do daily worship and focus more on Christianity than other religions, its ridiculous in this day and age. My poor DD1 was so upset by the easter story, its really grim imo and she kept asking would her grandad come back to life like Jesus (he'd died a few months earlier). You can ask for them not to take part in anything religious such as praying etc if it makes you uncomfortable