Removing reward badges on first pay back as punishment for behaviour in two zoom classes?

[ConcernedAboutRules]

Basically, DS who is normally very well behaved has been playing the class jokester on one or two zoom calls. He has been warned previously for this. Nothing too serious in my opinion. Now teacher has told him to expect to hand over all the badges and special jumper he's earned for various things and that he will no longer be on the school council etc. as soon as he arrives back during morning registration. Am I the only one thinking this is really unreasonable punishment given the situation and the fact he's known as 'the badge kid'?

Seems a bit harsh to me. How was he encouraging others? If it was just a case of he started pulling faces and then others joined in then surely the other kids should be punished too?

What exactly is he having taken away and were they all lost in one go?
That's another thing you need to find out.

It's very possible he lost them through several incidents and he just realised today exactly how much he lost. Not to mention you'll ask where his jumper went etc. So he had to come clean. But this might be much bigger than you think, and he had several chances.

Drop the "fuming" "my poor boy" act until you know exactly what went on.

I would be weary about trying to undermine her when he knows he has done wrong, what will that teach him in future? He can do as he pleases and Mum will fix it? He has obviously done it more than once and has tried to drag others into it too.

The badges must represent something such as exemplary behaviour, surely if he behaves like this and has the badges then all the kids behaving like this should be rewarded with them.

I would use this as an opportunity in future, if he gets things wrong or makes mistakes you can remind him of how upset he was with the consequences so that he can rethink his actions.

If children misbehave during a lesson in school, the teacher is able to give warnings and then issue an immediate consequence such as loss of some minutes from the following breaktime. There's a limit to what teachers are able to do when children are learning at home.

This isn't a Foundation child who is still learning how to behave and was over excited by zoom lessons. This is a year 5 child who knows exactly what behaviour is or isn't acceptable during a lesson.

By your own admission, your ds misbehaved in more than one lesson. Even worse, he encouraged others to misbehave.

I feel really sorry for the teacher and even more sorry for the poor bloody kids in his class who wanted to get on with the lesson and had their learning disrupted by his messing about. I would have been furious if my dd was in his class.

The teacher wasn't really able to issue sanctions at the time (and it doesn't sound as if you dealt with his behaviour) so she will have to deal with the issue on his return to school.

Is he upset because he is ashamed of his behaviour and/or he has realised the impact that his behaviour has had on others or just upset because he has lost his badges?

Either way, I am sure that he will be able to earn back his badges with improved behaviour.

I guess I’d just encourage him to look at the big picture. He can earn them back with hard work and perseverance. It’s ok to mess up, and when we do, we can pick ourselves up and do better.

Maybe also emphasise that it is actually more serious than he thinks to encourage people to mess around when they go back - coronavirus is still a risk (especially as some kids may be vulnerable or living with vulnerable people).

I understand that he is upset and that you are defensive of him but rewards for positive behaviour being removed for disruptive behaviour seems appropriate to me and the consequences of bad behaviour are supposed to encourage reflection of poor behaviour. Yes ideally the teacher would have removed them at the time of the disruptive behaviour but could not due to being virtual. I think some understanding of the position the teacher is in (trying to control behaviour remotely and actually get kids to learn something) would be helpful. Behaviour which seems trivial can actually derail and disrupt an entire lesson for the entire class (herder when virtual). I think talking it through is a good idea but personally that consequence seems to fit the behaviour.

@ikeepseeingit

It seems like a lot based on what you have been told. Is she suggesting he earns it back by being good later on? Or just getting rid of them forever?

DS seems to think forever but I seriously doubt it, does seems like he's gotten the wrong end of the stick.

@FeckinCat

He's been warned about his behaviour and has still carried on. Even worse, he's been trying to get other children to follow his example.

Presumably he also knew that having badges removed was one of the school's methods of discipline too.

Personally I don't agree with removing something that a child has earned (and our school policy states that this shouldn't be done) but he clearly hasn't paid any attention to the warnings he's been given.

That kind of behaviour is so disruptive. There will have been children in his class who were genuinely trying to learn, but weren't able to do so because of your son's actions.

Yes don't get me wrong I'm not trying to defend my DS but isn't removing them in front of everyone during registration the morning he comes back going thr wrong way about it?

@AccidentallyOnPurpose

What exactly is he having taken away and were they all lost in one go? That's another thing you need to find out.

It's very possible he lost them through several incidents and he just realised today exactly how much he lost. Not to mention you'll ask where his jumper went etc. So he had to come clean. But this might be much bigger than you think, and he had several chances.

Drop the "fuming" "my poor boy" act until you know exactly what went on.

Agreed. I was just sort of thinking maybe loss of one at a time might have been more reasonable but you are right I need the full story.

@Thisgirlcando

I would be weary about trying to undermine her when he knows he has done wrong, what will that teach him in future? He can do as he pleases and Mum will fix it? He has obviously done it more than once and has tried to drag others into it too.

The badges must represent something such as exemplary behaviour, surely if he behaves like this and has the badges then all the kids behaving like this should be rewarded with them.

I would use this as an opportunity in future, if he gets things wrong or makes mistakes you can remind him of how upset he was with the consequences so that he can rethink his actions.

Some are behaviour, attendance etc. some are roles such as being on the school council.

@cariadlet

If children misbehave during a lesson in school, the teacher is able to give warnings and then issue an immediate consequence such as loss of some minutes from the following breaktime. There's a limit to what teachers are able to do when children are learning at home.

This isn't a Foundation child who is still learning how to behave and was over excited by zoom lessons. This is a year 5 child who knows exactly what behaviour is or isn't acceptable during a lesson.

By your own admission, your ds misbehaved in more than one lesson. Even worse, he encouraged others to misbehave.

I feel really sorry for the teacher and even more sorry for the poor bloody kids in his class who wanted to get on with the lesson and had their learning disrupted by his messing about. I would have been furious if my dd was in his class.

The teacher wasn't really able to issue sanctions at the time (and it doesn't sound as if you dealt with his behaviour) so she will have to deal with the issue on his return to school.

Is he upset because he is ashamed of his behaviour and/or he has realised the impact that his behaviour has had on others or just upset because he has lost his badges?

Either way, I am sure that he will be able to earn back his badges with improved behaviour.

I think we dealt with or thought we dealt with what DS let us know was happening. Teacher did call me and said he's been a bit disruptive but didn't go into detail I did speak to him previously I wonder if she's been giving him chance after chance after chance...

@Sittingonabench

I understand that he is upset and that you are defensive of him but rewards for positive behaviour being removed for disruptive behaviour seems appropriate to me and the consequences of bad behaviour are supposed to encourage reflection of poor behaviour. Yes ideally the teacher would have removed them at the time of the disruptive behaviour but could not due to being virtual. I think some understanding of the position the teacher is in (trying to control behaviour remotely and actually get kids to learn something) would be helpful. Behaviour which seems trivial can actually derail and disrupt an entire lesson for the entire class (herder when virtual). I think talking it through is a good idea but personally that consequence seems to fit the behaviour.

Yes, but potentially all of them in front of the class the second he comes back? You think they might all be given a weeks grace?

Yes don't get me wrong I'm not trying to defend my DS but isn't removing them in front of everyone during registration the morning he comes back going thr wrong way about it?

I don't agree with doing it in front of everyone. That's just adding humiliation to the original punishment.

I would check with the school to see how much of what your son is saying is actually true. The first morning back would surely be all about welcoming everyone back and making sure that everyone is okay (that's certainly the plan at our school). Launching straight into public punishments just seems incredibly unlikely.

ConcernedAboutRules

Bythemillpond
The problem with removing everything means he hasn’t got anything else to lose.
So where else can the teacher go with punishments and to keep him in line
I know at school something similar happened to me and I went from really trying hard to not bothering. It was pointless putting in all the effort only for everything getting removed for one days misdemeanour
What was your situation and how did your parents resolve it

We had to save up stars for good behaviour (I know I struggled) I did try so hard as I used to get the cane more than any other girl in the school. I can’t even remember what I did but do remember this teacher taking away all the stars I had earned snd bring initially very upset but then realising as I had nothing left to lose that I could pretty do what ever I liked and she couldn’t take away what wasn’t there.
My parents couldn’t have cared less. It was the 60s and if they found out you had been naughty at school then you got a hiding when you got home.

If the teacher does it publicly I would formally complain tbh.

If the teacher takes an attendance badge away they are an idiot as attendance is factual.

I would not let my child take them in before speaking to the teacher. This is entirely the wrong approach on the first day back after a term out of school.

However - I would have an open mind about how badly behaved my child had been and would want the whole story.

I used to be a teacher if this affects how people view my answer. A small percentage of teachers are wallies unfortunately. Maybe this teacher is one of them.

OP, did you speak to your DS this morning, to find out any more?

If he was being disruptive online, and the teacher called you about it, and he continued after that, I can understand why the desperate teacher resorted to threatening to remove his badges!

Hopefully he's gone into school with the badges and a regular school jumper in his bag, a remorseful expression and a resolution to be well behaved today. Perhaps he will pre-empt the problem by going straight up to the teacher and apologising for his behaviour.

If the teacher really does give him a public dressing down, you'd be within your rights to request a telephone meeting to discuss it further. I reckon that good behaviour and an apology will do the trick though.

From the teachers point of view she has to get a class of children back into school behaviour mode ASAP. They have been “feral” (sorry!) for too long. She only has just over a term to get these kids on track for year six. They have all seen your son messing about on zoom lessons (I don’t understand why the teacher didn’t call you and tell you about his behaviour but that’s another story) , she needs the class to recognise that messing about on zoom is as unacceptable as messing around in class and that messing about has repercussions. If your child was warned and chose to continue to behave badly then really in Y5 he is old enough to take the consequences of his actions. If he had behaved like that in class he would probably have lost his badges on the spot and he knows that, sadly he thought he was safe to behave badly at home, he now knows it was just as inappropriate as behaving badly at school.

He knows how to behave as shown by his previous behaviour, he can earn the badges back again.

I hope they are proper badges btw, not loads of old good work/well done stickers that he has kept on his jumper for months because, frankly , that is odd!

The "stern talking to " you think is appropriate was the warning he got, from his teacher and then from you. It didn't work, so this is the punishment. It's nice your so concerned about your ds, it would be nicer if you were more concerned about the teacher whose lessons he disrupted and the other students he disrupted at a time when things were quite hard enough already. Is he upset that he let himself and his teacher down, or upset because there are repercussions?

@ConcernedAboutRules How did you get on today?

i bet your DS was pratting about more than hes is admitting to and the teacher was well pissed off with it

How did it go @ConcernedAboutRules

Whatever the misdemeanour, a school must follow its behaviour and punishment policy. Humiliating children is usually not in it. Yes, there should be a sanction for poor behaviour, but this is wrong. Hopefully it was a threat and not reality.

What’s the update op?

From the teachers point of view she has to get a class of children back into school behaviour mode ASAP. They have been “feral” (sorry!) for too long

Wtf. Are you saying teachers are the only people who can keep kids in line and left up to the parents they become feral.

What a difference in schools. Local schools here welcomed the children back yesterday with balloons not a stick.

@Bythemillpond

From the teachers point of view she has to get a class of children back into school behaviour mode ASAP. They have been “feral” (sorry!) for too long

Wtf. Are you saying teachers are the only people who can keep kids in line and left up to the parents they become feral.

What a difference in schools. Local schools here welcomed the children back yesterday with balloons not a stick.

No of course I am not saying teachers are the only ones who can get children to behave. But as any teacher will tell you the line between a class who are behaving and a class who aren’t can be a thin one. And getting a child to behave at home is not the same as setting the guidelines for 30 children’s behaviour at school.

On this thread there is a child whose previous behaviour was so exemplary that he was “known for his badges”, yet while at home under parental care he behaved badly on a number of occasions towards his classmates and teacher.

When classes are out of school for the summer holiday they often need to be reminded about the expectations schools have on their return. Children have been out of school for longer than six weeks and while most schools and most children are delighted to be back some won’t be and will show they aren’t .

The “feral” remark was meant to be lighthearted, which is why it was in inverted commas and had an apology to parents attached.

Maybe the son had got the wrong end of the stick about what the teacher said