Removing reward badges on first pay back as punishment for behaviour in two zoom classes?

[ConcernedAboutRules]

Basically, DS who is normally very well behaved has been playing the class jokester on one or two zoom calls. He has been warned previously for this. Nothing too serious in my opinion. Now teacher has told him to expect to hand over all the badges and special jumper he's earned for various things and that he will no longer be on the school council etc. as soon as he arrives back during morning registration. Am I the only one thinking this is really unreasonable punishment given the situation and the fact he's known as 'the badge kid'?

Firstly I'm delighted that you updated the post and got the full story from the teacher! I would absolutely punish at home for this too. He's been misbehaving in at school (rude gestures) and home (deleting voicemails) after all. If he feels ashamed of it then good! He's misbehaved, he's been corrected and shame is a natural result.

I agree don't take away awards that he has earned in the past- these are different to roles that carry responsibility and expectation like class monitor. For example, we get 'difficult' kids who have 100% attendance prizes, you can't not reward them for factual things that they have achieved. But if they were appointed house captain and went off the rails they absolutely wouldn't be allowed to continue in a privileged role, it would be offered up to someone else who would do it 'properly'.

Maybe a tech ban at home for a bit too but it sounds like he has very much realised the implications of his behaviour and as long as he shows signs of learning from them and improving his behaviour and attitude at home and school, I'd be focussed on supporting that I think.
It all sounds pretty rough but well done for updating and to be honest I think your DS will probably bounce back into a decent chap after this big blip.

I think he needs to know you're still for him and this hasn't broken the relationship irretruevably. Sometimes when kids get into trouble they can think "thats it now" and spiral.

Of course agree its all wrong but talk about better ways to handle it in future. Your goal is for him to feel he can own up to things and not delete messages) rather than punish hard at home too and next time feel he needs to hide what hes done for fear of punishment.

He's been punished and made to feel bad at school. I think home should be a plavce where he doesn't have to feel bad.

As a parent of a year 5 I would encourage the school to do this, he is old enough to know right abs wrong and playing up to the point he is disrupting other children's education is not ok.
Actions have consequences

Thanks for updating OP, many people wouldn’t have after discovering their child hadn’t been honest with them.

I agree that it’s a reasonable punishment by the school to remove his awards. I’d find out if it was actually done the first second he arrived in front of everyone before I got worked up about that.

I’d punish at home for deleting the voicemail messages. I disagree this a sign of embarrassment because if it was he would have stopped the behaviour earlier. It’s devious and dishonest and I’d be removing tech privileges for a time and then reinstating only under supervision.

I also think it’s time to start severing this attachment to external displays of attainment. They don’t give out stickers and badges in secondary school so his self worth is going to have to come from within, and if he wants teachers to respect him he’s going to have to behave respectfully, not just wear a jumper full of badges.

Could you help your ds to write an apology to the teacher? Would give you both a chance to chat about it all, and show the teacher he understands his behaviour was unacceptable and how he wishes to move forward. I’m sure the teacher would appreciate the effort. At home, whilst he needs to understand he has done wrong, I wouldn’t be too hard on him. Lockdown was tough for everyone.

Hi, all sorry had an entire post written and then accidently clicked refresh.

Re recent posts we are mindful of the impact of shame on him and have talked about how the lying most stop. And we have decided other than removal ALL devices from him coming in today for the foreseeable we will not be removing other awards and such he displays at home. We will also be having him write a formal letter of apology to his teacher. As I posted last night, he's been so upset by being found out etc. he refused to remove his coat until bedtime, yes really. We have talked to him about why he did it and to be honest I have a lump in my throat it seems that the mental health effects of lockdown made him feel unnoticed and lonely despite the fact he has had parental input I think this is a ‘I’m missing my friends thing’. I’m heartbroken. Oh my god he did all this for attention and then didn't want to be caught. As for where he learned the hand gestures, we can only assume the internet.

Re some asking specific sticker and badge related question, he had a golden as opposed to blue sweatshirt as he was the elected House Captain which he has held since year 3 because he was re-elected he kept paper stickers about 4 on his jumper (for good work etc. star of the week etc.) to augment his number of pin badges which he has for a number of things ever increasing since year 3 with him re-earning them each year, these are where: attendance, good conduct, school council rep for his class, a house captain, badge to go with the jumper, class monitor (who makes sure everyone is walking single file etc. with no talking on the way to assembly and does other odd jobs) a That said as ScottishStottie pointed out it's a strange moniker to have gone by, but DS is a bit geeky so probs felt he was held in esteem rather than it being seen as weird. In any case we have had a chat and I've said even if he gets more stickers, he's not to keep them on his jumper in the future. We have assured him he's not a different person just our DS who made a mistake but it's a tough transition for him and said he feels like 'I'm now one of the naughty kids' As Lady Cat Stark points out it's probs a good time to get him off all this kind of stuff. As Remaker said it's time to start 'severing external displays of attachment. Which the school have done as far as DS is concerned. I’m hoping he won’t spiral but I’m still worried about how the punishment was conducted. Which given how upset DS was I’m assuming is actuate. Not sure if I should complain or not. DS said the following conversation took place just before the teacher quieted the class for registration her having called him over:

Teacher: DS can you come here please? Take your coat off first.
DS: Hello miss I’m sorry for what happened.
Teacher: I’m sorry you have been acting up like this it’s a bit late for that.
DS: Oh.
Teacher: (according to DS looks down as his sweatshirt) can you take those stickers off please you have had some of them long enough anyway. Put them on here (a card).
DS: Starts getting a bit upset at this point teacher asked him to stand outside for a min.
Teacher: Tells him he has brought the school into disrepute and he’s lucky they have just returned from lockdown or he would have been excluded. Asks him to remove the House Captain, Form Rep and Monitor badges his sweatshirt and then remove it and told him to go to lost property to get a blue one Informs him he’s now on report and will be receiving detention and that no matter his behaviour he is no longer form rep house captain or monitor and that it’s possible if he’s good for the next three weeks he might get one of the attendance or conduct badges back.

So now the vice house captain has taken over his role and a new monitor and form rep will be appointed. And DS spent the say being asked questions about it as of course the other kids noticed to the point where some people who aren’t in his class asked his name for the first time.

I just don’t know if this was the right way to go about the actual removal almost a literal dressing down. But I’m not sure there was an easier way short of giving him a blue jumper and telling him to hand the jumper he had over the next day?

What would you complain about ? The fact he got his badges taken away or in the way it was handled? Perhaps check with the teacher first.

@Chunkyetfunky90

What would you complain about ? The fact he got his badges taken away or in the way it was handled? Perhaps check with the teacher first.

No clearly given what's happened he deserves to lose at least some of 'the goods' but I'm not sure if they were removed in the least emotionally traumatic way possible if you read my entire post.

Well if he acted out due to being lonely stressed and lockdown and was an A student before. Then I think the adults in this should hang their heads in shame. If he had low self esteem before hes defo got it now. There were other ways to chastise him. Lunchtime duties etc without shaming him to the whole school. Poor kid. No wonder society is so fd up.

@lydia2021

Well if he acted out due to being lonely stressed and lockdown and was an A student before. Then I think the adults in this should hang their heads in shame. If he had low self esteem before hes defo got it now. There were other ways to chastise him. Lunchtime duties etc without shaming him to the whole school. Poor kid. No wonder society is so fd up.

We have been giving him a lot of attention but I do feel very shamed myself but it seems to be more about missing his friends than not having fun times with mum and dad. We have clearly failed him.

Gosh that does sound really harsh bless him :( Especially as it had become part of his identity. I can see that they might remove him from being a house captain but I can't see why they would remove other awards. It does sound like his teacher (kind of understandably but still) doesn't like your son and it isn't going to be easy for him.

I think I would support him at home. Build resilience - that he can get through this and deal with what happened etc. Make home a safe and pleasant space. Spend time connecting etc. Not to minimise what he's done but it does sound like he was struggling and didn't really realise the impact of what he was doing.

"we have failed him."

No don't take that on you. Covid has been hideous for many of us. Truly. The mental health of kids everywhere has been affected. It isn't normal not to be able to see your friends etc.

But now is a good time to connect in whatever fun ways you do (favourite tv series episode a night after dinner is our current one!)

I have read the whole thread, I think it’s justified to loose it all he was given warnings and didn’t take notice, I still stand by what I said just ask the teacher to clarify what happened when he got to school etc

@BugsAndBeesAndBirdsAndButterfl

Gosh that does sound really harsh bless him :( Especially as it had become part of his identity. I can see that they might remove him from being a house captain but I can't see why they would remove other awards. It does sound like his teacher (kind of understandably but still) doesn't like your son and it isn't going to be easy for him.

I think I would support him at home. Build resilience - that he can get through this and deal with what happened etc. Make home a safe and pleasant space. Spend time connecting etc. Not to minimise what he's done but it does sound like he was struggling and didn't really realise the impact of what he was doing.

I get the impression from DS that teacher might have wanted to disrupt that identity especially given he was wearing his uniform but not a uniform when the offences occurred. I get the impression to the teacher it was about him 'looking like' he was some kind of special kid in the class above everyone else rather than the meaning of each award.

@Chunkyetfunky90

I have read the whole thread, I think it’s justified to loose it all he was given warnings and didn’t take notice, I still stand by what I said just ask the teacher to clarify what happened when he got to school etc

And if it happened in the manner DS said? Is it still to your mind justified I'm due to speak to her by phone this evening.

Ah that does make sense. But is hard when you are young.
Good luck - hope the next few weeks goes well.

Gosh that's harsh. I don't think the teacher handled that at all well. While he clearly needed to be punished, there's a gulf between appropriate punishment and public humiliation - which is what your son experienced. When you add the fact that the impact of lockdown on the mental health of young children has been very well documented - and is apparently worst for your son's age group - it seems even harsher.

I would speak not to the teacher but to the head, personally. I would start by acknowledging what your son did, and that you support both appropriate punishment and some 'learnings' (such as the letter to the teacher you suggested).

But I would also ask the head for some support in approaching the teacher, so that the latter understands that public shaming is at best counter-productive, at worst damaging to your son's mental health. And then developing a plan to build his self-confidence back up. This could be in a productive way that reflects his 'wrongs' (so he 'earns' his badges back, for example), so that there is a link between what he did and how he can 'improve'.

Poor kid. My daughter is in year 5. They feel public humiliation so keenly at that age, it's something that will unfortunately stay with him for a long time. I do think his teacher has lost all sense of perspective.

If it was done the way your son has said by all means complain that it’s unfair however, it is justified that he looses his rewards he was given warning and chose to ignore them he chose to disrupt the lesson he chose to use rude hand gestures, he even went as far to delete your voicemails so he wouldn’t get caught.

Is this private school? All these different responsibilities and roles seem a bit overkill for a bunch of 9/10 year olds.

@Chunkyetfunky90

If it was done the way your son has said by all means complain that it’s unfair however, it is justified that he looses his rewards he was given warning and chose to ignore them he chose to disrupt the lesson he chose to use rude hand gestures, he even went as far to delete your voicemails so he wouldn’t get caught.

I'm thinking it would have been better to do the entire thing in private or am I missing something else re the teachers manner with him?

I’ve said I agree with the punishment, I’ve also said check with the teacher and then complain I don’t think I’ve said I agree with it being done in front of everyone !

@lydia2021

Some teachers aren't fit to teach. Its savage and unnecessary. If my kid was treated like that, I would move him elsewhere. Has his teacher any idea of how his self esteem will be shattered just because he acted out on a zoom call. Teacher needs to chill out, and clearly doesnt understand children. He was at home ffs

No wonder behaviour is so bad in schools. Self esteem my arse.

He never should have been given ALL of those titles and allowed to develop that identity in the first place. No wonder he has come to grief. He's a small boy who was never going to be able to live up to some weird elevated level of perfection

I would not punish mine at home if this happened. I would take the approach of supporting him to work through what has happened and how he can learn from it and move forward - I would be much more concerned about him not feeling that he's a naughty boy now and there's no point in striving. He's had a horrible, humiliating shock and the most important thing now is scaffolding his recovery from it and building resilience.

Poor little bugger should never have been set up for a fall from such a great height.

This is a kid who deleted your voicemails and you still believe he's telling the truth 100%? Lockdown has been terrible for so many people and I understand him playing up but he was acting extremely sneaky and knew what he was doing.

Also agree with a pp who said why have you and the teachers allowed him to build himself up to this level of perfection?