Glendower vs Pembridge vs Ken Prep vs Falkner

[Ddbrightmoon]

Hi all

I wanted to ask how people would decide between these schools. We want our daughter to have a well rounded education but also go to a very strong school academically for 11+.

All schools have something going on (FH: uncertainty of the future with changing Headmistress G:Headmistress change although she seems to be doing a great job, pembridge: news of teacher departures and shift to Bute/G/KP at 7+. KP seems most stable and best facilities but G/FH seem a step ahead academically?

There are lots of threads but keen to get the latest view from the group!

Private education in general, and selective education more specifically is a touchy subject here in the U.K.

And I do find that FH does get picked upon more so than their neighbours.
It is the easiest target as it’s the smallest and most selective. And it not only selects their pupils, but also parents. And that rubs people the wrong way, especially the ones in the area who didn’t quite make the cut.

But it is a great school for the right kid/right family.
As are the other schools to.

@Coronateachingagain

There is no need to lecture us on corporate governance. Or to tell us that we all have to look at things the same way you do.
People can have different priorities and judgements. There is no one way.

I do find that in these discussions - people tend to try to justify their own choices, which is fine. But then they tend to push those choices on others, which isn’t as fine.
In my opinion

@MMmomDD no lecture just pointing out to facts about the evident lack of (corporate governance) but this may be something you know already but others don't. And a bit of my opinion too, like anyone else including you. In my opinion

Flavia Nunes set up FH to meet a gap in the market.
She let Miss Thomas become the head while she was the principal.
A bit odd that Anita was then appointed head but hey ho.
After Flavia died, Anita became principal.
Its an odd set up but they seem to make it work.

@Coronateachingagain

But you are lecturing. And also suggesting that people should consider corporate governance as an important criteria of school selection.

You don’t like FH and G, I get it. I don’t know if it’s an ideological dislike, or a more personal one. But it doesn’t really matter.
People don’t have to agree about which a schools they like and send their kids to.

Yep I am suggesting that FH governance falls short and it is a point to consider. It is obvious but you are free to ignore it. Glendower is much bettering this for that matter, and so is KP.

*better at

I do agree with @Coronateachingagain you need to consider governance and ownership. My children’s prep school was sold last year and brought by a chain of schools whose ethos was very different to the school we had selected.

I never considered, or even thought about governance/ownership structures of my kids nurseries, primary or secondary schools. Didn’t and don’t know, or cared if they have a board....
Same with other institutions I came across in my life - my universities, or hospitals, etc...

What I did care about when choosing my kids educational providers - is the feeling of the place; the competence of the HM/teachers; reputation of the school over time; other people’s experiences; facilities.
And once my kids started in any of the places - then monitored their actual experiences and quality of education.
And how the school dealt with any issues that we, or people around us came across.

As the time went on - my kids schools, as well as many schools in the area kept evolving. New teachers came; several HM’s changed; all schools evolved. Ethos also changed a bit. All of that is part of normal evolution.

Interestingly - KP, G, Bute, Pembridge, etc have changed the most over the past 10+ years. Every new HM brings their own new vision. Now Bute is going to change yet again.
FH changed a lot less, given stable and consistent management. Next big change for them is when current HM steps back and passes the reigns to her daughter completely. But this is a while away.

People like discussing pluses and minuses of the schools here. But in the end of the day - what counts is our kids experiences.
My kids love their schools and are getting great education.

Board or not - this is what’s important to me.
Others disagree and it’s their right.

Does anyone know who the new Bute head will be?

@Lolakath19 yes, they have a siblings policy at Thomas's which is great. but the fact that Thomas's says explicitly in their offer letter that they do not prepare children for 11+ at all.
My husband and I are not super academic either so sometimes I wonder if the little one won't be better off in a more chilled school like Thomas's where the main focus they say is 'happiness' of the child.
I am not a teacher so very hard to say how so much pressure at an early age is actually good for a little girl..but for example in comparison with other countries..in Norway there are no grades until i think age 11. so entirely different approaches!

@SlamDunk7

I heard various positive reviews about Ken prep, both children and parents love the school. Glendower has a relatively small outside area compared to Ken prep... However, they do lots of sports (especially swimming).

I cannot say that Glendower is more academic if you look at the results from last year for St Paul’s.

• Kensington Prep 8 offers (5 offers accepted, out of 37 candidates)
• Glendower Prep 3 (out of 36)

I also heard that this year the competition at Kensington prep was really high, as school seems to get better from year to year. Hope this helps!

Have you made a decision yet?

It is fascinating that FH discussions always involve the marmiteness of the staff, or at least the family that own the schools. You don’t get that with other schools, not even on the private boards or paid for sites.

I think their attempt at being a huge “family” (but very much with a “boss”) means that the professionalism is missing. They are too familiar. People gossip about the staff in a way that they just don’t about other schools.

I’m also wondering whether the waiting lists have started to move for Glendower and Kensington prep?

@SD887
A friend of mine was told that Ken Prep won’t move on waitlist before deadline of 26/2. According to previous messages in the chat, Glendower has already started making offers to waitlisted girls.

Hello all. Seems like 2021 results are out for leavers. Glendower seems to have done amazingly well, 7 girls accepted to SPGS!

www.glendowerprep.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/2021-11-Results-2.pdf

How did the other schools do?

The fact is that if your DD is both smart AND ready to learn/academic at an early age, Glendower and FH will be good options with FH having the edge as they will leave no stones unturned. So if you can leave with interacting with Anita (check the couple of videos on tube) then fine. However Pembridge probably is the most value added, if your child is academic, she will do equally well (as demonstrated by results), if not, their set up is geared to help and not to kick you out or leave to parents to make up with extra tutoring, they also work on confidence and they send the girls to the right schools. I know two Glendower girls who went to St Pauls and had a full time tutor at home catering for the family, so you wonder what was their edge, the mother could not have achieved that without bringing the best tutoring and maximising the chances.
Then I would choose Kensington prep above those three (personally I like the cover of GDST ethos, the facilities, etc), and Bute above all (if they choose you). So much depends on your child. The risk with accepting these places, is that you have a child ready and academic but does not end up being that smart or resilient later on, and you need to change because the pressure of performing is not working. It is difficult to forget that this is a long game, it is not about 11+ results, it is about building the blocks to end up with a resilient, well educated and "comfortable with herself" young adult that has reached her own potential. If you burn too much too soon, you will run out of gas later.

@Coronateachingagain

The fact is that if your DD is both smart AND ready to learn/academic at an early age, Glendower and FH will be good options with FH having the edge as they will leave no stones unturned. So if you can leave with interacting with Anita (check the couple of videos on tube) then fine. However Pembridge probably is the most value added, if your child is academic, she will do equally well (as demonstrated by results), if not, their set up is geared to help and not to kick you out or leave to parents to make up with extra tutoring, they also work on confidence and they send the girls to the right schools. I know two Glendower girls who went to St Pauls and had a full time tutor at home catering for the family, so you wonder what was their edge, the mother could not have achieved that without bringing the best tutoring and maximising the chances. Then I would choose Kensington prep above those three (personally I like the cover of GDST ethos, the facilities, etc), and Bute above all (if they choose you). So much depends on your child. The risk with accepting these places, is that you have a child ready and academic but does not end up being that smart or resilient later on, and you need to change because the pressure of performing is not working. It is difficult to forget that this is a long game, it is not about 11+ results, it is about building the blocks to end up with a resilient, well educated and "comfortable with herself" young adult that has reached her own potential. If you burn too much too soon, you will run out of gas later.

This post is very accurate. I had DDs recently leave bute and PH.

I'd add that you also need to like the ethos, much of my views are reflected in the posts here-
Falkner (not personal experience but friends) -traditional, small school, solid academics, will give your DD exactly what she needs and guide you but it's their way or no way and you have to trust and let them get on with it.
Glendower is more in between
PH is more mixed ability but will help your DD, quite a few girls move in and out of PH as parents try for more academic places (probably unnecessarily but that's London prep culture), the results are improving and include a real range of schools
Bute- so hard to get into but wonderful if you get a place and rightly deserves its status, not just because of results (which now is the fact over half go to the 3 hammersmith schools rather than the spgs attraction of the past) but the environment there is lovely mix of fun, genuine love of learning which I didn't see in my other DD's school in the same way and amazing support for those who need it- pastorally and academically. It is a mix of all abilities from 4+ with the selection later on but handled so well. Also find the parent body (a little) more diverse than other preps- in a good way. Head is changing but I am happy with how the current head is leaving it with a little less focus on just spgs and more on the range of top schools as well as the school itself being slick and really inspiring- not just a means to an end in terms of 11+. Hope the new head continues this feel.

Caveat- lots of parents tutor at all these schools and there is little the schools can do about it. Bute has been known to pull in parents for a chat when they hear of tutoring and advise parents it is too much or unnecessary- but at the end of the day that's only when they know about it and are concerned. No school can stop it however much they hate the anxiety and pressure around tutoring. I've asked bute and PH in the past if I should get a tutor and was told by Bute if there's something a tutor can do for two hours a week that will make a difference, they'll do it and they went through exactly what they do for my DD in a tailored way and reassured me getting a whole new person in was not going to help in anyway other than pressurise my dd. They said there are exceptional circumstances when tutoring might be encouraged but then they would give recommendations of proper qualified tutors and link up with them.
PH told me to tutor if I want- no further discussion or advice. So that sums up the differences in level of thought and care!

Surprised nobody has mentioned the change in head and leadership at Ken prep. Not the school it used to be and the top staff/heads of department on their way out. Having had a daughter go through the school and one in final years I can honestly say it's the parents that do ALL the work to get the results not the school. Online learning has been very poor compared to other schools and the feedback on your child is very generic throughout their time at KP. It does have excellent facilities and is not pushy at all in the early years if that's what you're after but don't expect high quality teaching based on exit results. This needs to be spoken about more than it is but everyone tutors heavily especially this year 6 cohort, although it's always gone on, this year the results are very strong and will send the wrong message about the quality of teaching . Go for Falkner if you want a more personal school that knows your daughter based on feedback from friends, Its very different to KP. Have no experience of Glendower I'm afraid but you're probably made your choice already.

That is very sad to hear @Oakleycakes - I was not aware of all these changes.

@Oakleycakes it is not a novel finding that the parents do all the work at any top London school. That is the one constant I’ve found to be true regardless of which school you go to. Pick your school based on what is best for your child and your family. You have touched on a very valid point. Teachers change at every school and so it is still a bit of a lottery in the sense that you cannot be sure who will actually teach your child nor do you have any say over your child’s cohort. It’s a leap of faith especially this year when many parents have not had the opportunity of getting an in-person feel for the schools they’ve selected for their DCs. All the best to all those who have DCs starting schooling journeys this September!

@Oakleycakes

Surprised nobody has mentioned the change in head and leadership at Ken prep. Not the school it used to be and the top staff/heads of department on their way out. Having had a daughter go through the school and one in final years I can honestly say it's the parents that do ALL the work to get the results not the school. Online learning has been very poor compared to other schools and the feedback on your child is very generic throughout their time at KP. It does have excellent facilities and is not pushy at all in the early years if that's what you're after but don't expect high quality teaching based on exit results. This needs to be spoken about more than it is but everyone tutors heavily especially this year 6 cohort, although it's always gone on, this year the results are very strong and will send the wrong message about the quality of teaching . Go for Falkner if you want a more personal school that knows your daughter based on feedback from friends, Its very different to KP. Have no experience of Glendower I'm afraid but you're probably made your choice already.

From what I know of Ken Prep, this isn’t a fair description at all.

Re Ken Prep, I believe a lot of tutoring went on for the current set of leavers, partly due to Covid / home learning and partly due to a maths tutoring enterprise set up by a parent in that year group. I heard that 12 girls accepted places at St Pauls, but there were relatively few offers from Godolphin compared with previous years.

@Maremaremare

Re Ken Prep, I believe a lot of tutoring went on for the current set of leavers, partly due to Covid / home learning and partly due to a maths tutoring enterprise set up by a parent in that year group. I heard that 12 girls accepted places at St Pauls, but there were relatively few offers from Godolphin compared with previous years.

That is interesting. I also heard more generally of girls that got an offer for St Paul’s but not Latymer or G&L. It looks like uber tutoring is more effective to get to St Paul’s.

One can’t make any conclusions from this year’s results. Certainly not wether tutoring is more effective for getting into any particular schools.

This year all schools made it up as they went along. They had limited inputs and they chose to look at them differently.

To decide who gets interviews - LU and G&L - used ISEB - a test that consisted of Math, English, VR and NVR. LU also looked at school reports/CATs. G&L didn’t take reports/CATs into account.

SPGS - had the results of Nov pre-test, which is an equivalent to an IQ test, not really tutor’able as no one knows what it is exactly. They had CATs. Then they had to interview everyone who got through to exams.
And they had two 30 min exams - Math and English. Those were split into two 15 min parts. There was no complex math - Part C of the exam - where the more advanced in math kids get to differentiate themselves.

So - while in every year there could be kids who get into SPGS but not, say Latymer - and they is based on performance on a specific day on a quite a tough day long examination papers. This year - differences also happened but for different reasons.
Generally, most SPGS kids also got offers for G&L and Latymer. But there were a few of next tier girls who’d ordinarily would have offers to G&L - but missed out on them. Maybe had w off day at the ISEB, and G&L didn’t take their CATs into account.
Sad, really.
But it is what it is