Glendower vs Pembridge vs Ken Prep vs Falkner

[Ddbrightmoon]

Hi all

I wanted to ask how people would decide between these schools. We want our daughter to have a well rounded education but also go to a very strong school academically for 11+.

All schools have something going on (FH: uncertainty of the future with changing Headmistress G:Headmistress change although she seems to be doing a great job, pembridge: news of teacher departures and shift to Bute/G/KP at 7+. KP seems most stable and best facilities but G/FH seem a step ahead academically?

There are lots of threads but keen to get the latest view from the group!

Very interesting and relevant discussion here.

DD has a spot at KP and just been offered a spot at Glendower (where we were waitlisted) . I was all set on KP but the Glendower offer does need serious consideration.
DS is only 6wks old but hopefully has a spot at FH nursery (as things stand) .

Taking logistics and school feedback into account - any thoughts on the pros and cons of KP vs Glendower (I know a lot has already been discussed on this discussion)

@Lolakath19 I also sent you a pm. Hope you don’t mind :)

Any parents on the discussion whose daughters go to Glendower? Or someone in your network ? Would really be keen to speak to someone at Glendower on their view / feedback of the school.
Spoke to a few KP parents and found it very helpful.
Need to decide between KP and glendower real soon ! (Could do without the stress tbh :))

fair enough, thomas's have a siblings policy yes

KP vs Glendower.
If anyone were facing this choice - here is how I’d be looking at it....
They are very comparable schools, with KP having better facilities. Not as good as Bute, but best of other girls schools in the area.
KP has a lot of people living nearby, so there is a sense of community.
Glendower has a bit more of ‘glamour’/richer/celebrity feel and at the same time more traditional British.

But in the end of the day I would use proximity as tie breaker. If you are closer to one than the other - it’s important in these early years. And your DD’s life would be easier.

This is all based on having mine and friends kids in all of the primary schools mentioned over the past several years.

@MMmomDD thank you so much for your valuable input. Your arguments do make a lot of sense. I am a feminist but never even thought that boys and girls learn differently so I learned something! Thank you.

Sorry but what a massive generalisation between boys and girls. My children are at a co Ed prep school and are both doing fantastically well.

I’m surprised we don’t segregate the sexes forever.....why not in the work place. Honestly the notion that your girl will only succeed if taught separately from boys is just wrong.

I do however agree that Thomas is less academic than KG but that’s also because it has a sibling policy which is non selective

Of course boys and girls can be taught together, and this is what most of the world has always done, no one is disputing that.
And if you talk to people in education they can tell you more about how 4yos differ - and how gross/fine motor skills develop at different ways in small children. And how attention differs at that age - and why boys schools structure the day differently from girls schools in early prep years.

Majority of the world does not start formal tuition in reading/writing/etc at the same early age as the U.K. More normal age for that is about 6. By that age the gender differences aren’t as important. And it’s easier to reach both together effectively.

However - the other factor is that the exits for girls and boys are different - due to some strange old British system of the private education. Boys can take exams at 7, or 8, or 11/13... Girls take it at 11, but not at the same time, as boys’s 11+. And 11+ exams for boys and girls are quite different.
At least here in western Central London.

So - Thomas’s isn’t less academic because of siblings. Glendower, Bute, Falkner also take siblings. It’s more that T’s simply can’t teach boys the same way Wetherby does - with the 4 years of pre-prep structures specifically to prepare for early boys exams (7/8+),
And it can’t structure curriculum and delivery around the best way to educate little girls to pass 11+...

So - this is the main reason why mixed schools in this area don’t deliver same results - it’s just not possible, structurally.

Of course - in many ways it’s a wrong way to judge the quality of education. It shouldn’t be about exams and entry points for secondary schools. But - sadly - it is the system we have.

Asking for a friend who's not on mumsnet, does anyone know if the waiting lists at FH / Glendower / Ken Prep have started moving at all?

@MMmomDD - so you are implyingseparating them is more relevant till they are about 6. Right. Let's be clear, Glendower and Falkner only take siblings if they pass the test. Used to be different at Glendower but not any more. Bute has siblings policy only if sibling is younger and at 4+ entry, but not at 7+. Also the pruning in later years at Glendower and Falkner is most pronounced, so by the time of the 11+ you have a perfect cohort that will achieve best results. Not so much at Thomas's who will generally not tell a child to leave (and split the siblings).
Note also that boys schools are generally increasing intake at 11+, so everything is converging. Further up Co-ed is definitely favoured for sixth form, for various reasons not only social but also seen as better prep for university. Finally, you omitted to mention that boys actually tend to do better in co-ed - they take a good influence from the girls for some reason, not to mention makes them more rounded individuals. Lots and lots of posts about this on Mumsnet, that develop why so I will not go into it.

@Coronateachingagain

I am not implying anything, simply stating the differences and why things may be different in other countries.
And segregated education was always strange to me as I grew up in a place where we only had mixed schools.
We can debate this and pluses and minuses of different approaches all we want.
And there are a lot of great philosophical points about it.
However, for any parent in this area it’s a simple pragmatic choice that they need to make.

If you want your boy to end up at St.P. or Westminster - and have a place at Wetherby - this would give them their best chance....
Similarly with having a smart girl and hoping for a place in one of the three Hammersmith secondaries - your best bet is still FH/G/KP.

It is not Thomas’s.

It isn’t impossible to get from T’s to one of the top schools, it does happen too - but it’s a massive uphill battle.

@Coronateachingagain

Boys schools taking more at 11+ is a slowly changing trend, yes.
But it’s still not fully there. And boys end girls 11+ are still different exams.
Boys’ is in the fall. Girls’ is in Jan. Boys has more modules and covers mostly Y5 material at the less material (ISEB) than the girls schools’, at least up until now.
This year may have given the whole system a massive shakeup. And exams may change in the future.

But the decisions need to be made now Ana in the absence of certainty about the future.
And everything above still stands.

@Coronateachingagain FH/G/KP is the best bet if your child is confirmed as up to standard and not weeded out. Which is difficult to say at 4, but it is a good start if you have passed the entrance exam.
if the girls goes to Thomas's and still up to the standard, they will certainly get into a top school, and I don't think the chances are reduced because going to T. It is more, FH/G/KP choose the girls but the (big) detail is that you are only allowed if they let you, so it is less about the school and more about the Admissions and Weeding out policy and of course the child in question.
So for the same child, there will not be a big difference in outcomes, it is just you get the further comfort you are on track earlier on if you can keep up at FH/G/KP. The latter may well indeed be a driving decision factor for the more anxious parents that care more about academics over what kind of school environment they would like for their child (which will affect more who they are in the long term).
That is my two cents anyways, good discussion!

@RaspberryCake we were waitlisted at Glendower and got offered a spot yesterday. So the list has started moving there at least

For those who have/ know of kids going to Glendower, do you find the lack of outside space a big issue ?
It was one of the reasons I was more keen on KP (given they have a lot more space / sporting facilities on site) but DH is convinced that Glendower is a better school/ more rounded development
Any thoughts ?

Glendower isn’t more rounded or better than KP. Results are comparable.
If anything G is more strict and traditional, and lack of outside space does matter.
Also - having to be bused to sports eats into school day a bit.
But that said - I’d not travel much extra time for KP. So - I’d look at the daily commute when comparing these schools.

Sigh.
What an interesting discussion.
Results at KP and Glendower are comparable. You certainly can’t go wrong at either academically.
What I always find so interesting with these threads is that the answer on which school to go to ALWAYS seems to be - who sends the most girls to Hammersmith schools? What about.. which is the best for all round nurturing? Instilling love of learning? Pastoral care? Do these things not matter anymore.
I have loads of friends at both these schools. They all have lovely but very different children with unique sets of strengths and challenges.
To the original poster, I would just say - as your daughter begins her school career and navigates the natural hiccups and challenges that come with being 6,7,8,9,10 and 11 - both the academic and inevitable social growing pains - which school do you think will be able to support your child in a ways that they will learn and grow from said challenges? Does the school have a parent body / PTA that is Uber competitive with one - upsmanship? Or are they known to be supporting and caring community? Obviously every class itself is different, but these are the things I would be asking myself if I were looking at schools again. Which school is going to teach my child to take a test, which school is going to teach my child to love to learn.
If my daughter ends up being a perfectly wonderful middle of the pack kind of girl - which school will still celebrate her strengths, even if that strength is kindness and not her math skills? Which school gives rewards only for the most academic, and what is that telling my child?

The cream of the crop always rise to the top. Whether at Glendower, Kensington Prep or Thomas’. What about for the girls that are 5th a
/10th/ 20th best in the class. What does the school do to support them?

Are you prepared to deal with the moms at the school gate who are comparing test scores? Which school gate do you imagine yourself doing pick up from?

As for outdoor space- Glendower is very close to Hyde park and they like seeing some green grass every day. Kensington Prep it is a cement courtyard.

But don’t discount Thomas’ because it is co-ed and might not have 15 girls going to St Paul’s. If your child is St Paul’s material, Thomas’ will make sure she gets there. And if she isn’t... well, then she won’t know the difference and will likely never know, or care. And wouldn’t it be wonderful not to have that kind of pressure put on a 11 year old?

• From a Mom who Would Do it Differently if She Could Do it Again.

@Coronateachingagain and @Mommy77
Really interesting perspectives about school environment and experience. We have been grappling with this for a couple of weeks. We’re in the fortunate position of having offers from
KP and FH for our DD and it is hard not to feel flattered that they see ‘something’ in her. There is also such immense competition over places that it feels as though you would be mad to turn down something so coveted. But after many sleepless nights going over and over it, I think I’m finally reaching the same conclusion I had a year ago. I’m fairly confident that my DD would do well in this sort of environment, but ultimately I’d rather she had a more relaxed and carefree existence for at least a few years more with a focus on imagination, creativity and emotional development. It’s hard to swim against the tide though...

Lovely post @Mommy77. Wisdom that is

@Mommy77 thanks for the wisdom indeed !
@MangetoutW6 did you pick KP over FH in the end ?

Thank you fir your helpful view @Jsku

Does anyone know if most people going to FH/ Glendower live locally (within walking distance ) to the schools ? Or do people travel from Earl’s Court/ Fulham etc ? Other than logistics, how important do you think it is to be close to the school (from pov I’d play dates , social networks etc) ? Thanks !

@MangetoutW6

I think there is a lot of misconceptions about the ‘environment’ in the ‘academic’ schools in our area. In your post it’s clear that you think that FH/G/KP are some sort of high pressured institutions as contrasted to the other schools ‘focus on imagination, creativity, and emotional development’....
And in my experience of a few of these schools, as well as my friends’ it’s simply not the case.

I think boys pre-preps school do have more pressure simply because they have 3-4years to train the kids for the rather difficult exams and have not much time to do it.

But girls schools have 7 years. They aren’t some sort of continuous pressure-cookers with strict grumpy teachers. There is plenty of the creativity, imagination, fun, etc.
But by having selected similarly minded/able kids at the start - the more academic schools are just able to teach them at the speed that those kids are able to learn. And it’s invaluable, in my opinion. My kids loved and still love going to school. They loved to dance, and paint, and make projects. And they also loved learning lots of new things.

As to competitive parents and stress and anxiety around tests and results. Don’t fool yourself thinking that it would I be different in less selective schools. Parents can get competitive in any school - state or private. You don’t need to be involved or care about it. And it never really mattered in my experience.

In the end of the day - the questions @Mommy77 asked while describing schools are of course important. But - I think that the answers to them aren’t simple black/white ‘academic schools - non-supportive and competitive’ vs ‘other schools - happy and creative’...
It is impossible to know what your 4yo’s child’s experience will be at any given school for the next 7 years. And you would find a wide range of very happy to unhappy parents in any school.

School selection at 4 seems very important at the time. Almost as if you are selecting their whole life trajectory. But it isn’t.
And neither it’s cast in stone. There is plenty of mobility in the system - which I think is a good thing. Girls do move a bit around 7 - to Bute and other schools - which is great as by then it’s much clearer what school is actually better for which kid.

Good luck to all of you. It’s great to have choices and your kids will do well in any of these schools!

@SlamDunk7

Earl’s Court/Fulham as well as Notting Hill - are all areas where people do come to G/FH. It’s not really a ‘commute’.
I think T’s is more of a local, walking to school sort of place.

To add on where families live and go to G/FH also Holland Park but commute is not a problem if you have a chauffeur 🤣

@Coronateachingagain

Chauffeur 🤷🏻‍♀️