Glendower vs Pembridge vs Ken Prep vs Falkner

[Ddbrightmoon]

Hi all

I wanted to ask how people would decide between these schools. We want our daughter to have a well rounded education but also go to a very strong school academically for 11+.

All schools have something going on (FH: uncertainty of the future with changing Headmistress G:Headmistress change although she seems to be doing a great job, pembridge: news of teacher departures and shift to Bute/G/KP at 7+. KP seems most stable and best facilities but G/FH seem a step ahead academically?

There are lots of threads but keen to get the latest view from the group!

Anyone else eavesdropping on this thread and absolutely AGOG at some of the safeguarding issues the set-up at FH would raise if it were in the state sector?

Not that you’d even find a set-up like that in the state sector, of course. But, GOOD GRIEF.

@MMmomDD

You are raising an interesting point about the fall/winter girls.

I was wondering about that bias (I'm thinking Outliers here), and whether anyone knows if this gets any consideration in 4+ at the schools in this thread. I'm hoping for our August-born DD that they don't apply the same exact yardstick to the girls even if there is almost a full year between them

Unfucked Like what?

@Coronateachingagain

Theoretically what you say is correct. However, generally and based on years of dealing with the system here - it’s not an issue specific to FH. HM’ses and HM’ters run their schools the way they do, and I personally haven’t heard of any instances where there was such a disagreement that necessitated contact with the Board; or if there was contact - that Board stepped in and went against the school management.

There are of course parents who are unhappy with this or that in a school.
Or disagree with the management on something.
Parents sometimes raise issues and schools try to resolve them, or, dismiss them and tell parents that what the school is doing is ok
(More recently - on the approach to online schooling). It’s no different in any of the schools.

It’s possible that at FH parents are a little less vocal as they have to accept what MrsG decides.
But in all schools, around Y5 parents tend to start worrying about 11+ and dont want to be branded as ‘difficult’ come school reports. So most keep their heads down and get on with life.

But - as to safeguarding issues - this is just catastrophizing. These are schools in public eye and are businesses. Their reputation and kids safety is all they have, and so it’s not an issue @Unfucked

@Sally223
Sadly - there is a bias at the 4+ selection and august borns too have a tougher time. Selective schools do admit some - but it’s not an even distribution of ages in the class, typically.
Not much one can do at this time. Other than - try your best, pick among the schools you do get into. Support her in the early years and, if she is ready at 7 - move her to a more academic school, or leave it until 11 - when the differences won’t be as pronounced and help her get her in the right secondary for her.

@MMmomDD general practice about the way the governance safeguards work (in business and in other settings) is that the mere existence of an up channel prevents things from happening too. So the channel is not only there to be used but a reminder of management that it is accesible and definitely a good influence when making decisions. That is one of the points to consider if you don't like the family and think you may clash at some point with no recourse whatsoever.

I was about to post but saw @Coronateachingagain had voiced exactly my concerns.

Parents who think a smart school in the public eye can be trusted not to do everything they can to hush up any threat to their reputation clearly don’t know much about British public schools.

The existence of a disinterested governing body is also important to staff retention and discipline, especially in schools where they may be a profit motive.

More importantly, you may like the family now, but will you still like them if something terrible happens to your child further up the school, and you don’t like their response? How will you escalate?

Yes, you could remove your child, but that may mean removing them from an environment and peers that are a real source of happiness, so your child suffers through no fault of their own. Meanwhile the teacher in question continues in the school.

Completely agree @Unfucked would not sit well with me

I understand the theoretical points you are making.
However - in reality the difference is negligible, and only on paper.
Bullying happens occasionally in all of these schools. And they all deal with it in a very similar hush hush ways.
And bullying happens in a one class /year school like FH - then removing the child is sometimes the best way to deal with it and it’s hardly a happy environment you are removing them from.

If you are talking about any more serious adult/child safeguarding issues - then it’s not the board that is protecting our kids - it’s the whole legal system.
So - in the end of the day it’s a choice each family makes. You can chose not to take up offers you get.

Did you go to a English public school yourself @MMmomDD? I did, and I think your confidence is misplaced. What if the worst bullying is from a teacher, rather than a pupil?

There’s also a continuum of resolutions - you don’t just lawyer up here, and power can be asserted in all sorts of opaque and disabling ways.

The teachers need protecting, too. Something I would want particular reassurance on is staff turnover - this was a big factor in two families I know withdrawing their children from PH.

@Unfucked

I am probably not explaining myself well.
It’s not that I have confidence in any particular system over another.
It’s that I think no system is completely error proof. And all decisions we make have a degree of risk. And people assign personal weights to those risks based on their life experiences, etc.

So - I personally do not perceive the preps in question as high risk. But I’d not send my kids to a boarding school in any country, irrespective of what safeguards they have in place. It’s a personal choice.

Oh absolutely @MMmomDD, all of it is risky, especially when the children are so little.

But surely it’s reassuring to know that, if you wanted to raise a complaint about a teacher for example, your complaint wasn’t fielded by that teacher’s mother.

@MMmomDD

I personally haven’t heard of any instances where there was such a disagreement that necessitated contact with the Board; or if there was contact - that Board stepped in and went against the school management.

St Christopher's in Hampstead. In 2016, the new head teacher tried to make changes to the school which rubbed some parents the wrong way. The Board fired her in mid-January with literally no notice. The school was in the middle of the 4+ assessments; one rumour had it that she was trying to change their sibling preference policy.

Sadly - there is a bias at the 4+ selection and august borns too have a tougher time. Selective schools do admit some - but it’s not an even distribution of ages in the class, typically.

At the schools I'm familiar with, most of the summer borns were siblings who benefited from a strong preference. In both of my DCs primary classes (at different schools), 70% of the reception children were born between September and February. If you only looked at non-siblings, it was over 80%.

@user149799568

I am sure if a new HM, say the one coming to Bute this/next year starts off her tenure with something this fundamental to the school without backing of the Board - that they’d step in as well.
And what you describe sounded like some sort of hiring mistake, or there is more to the story. As no one starts by throwing a bomb into the middle of well functioning school.

Anything other than this rare situation - on more day/day issues between parents and staff or HM - boards just don’t get involved. And mostly there isn’t a way to directly contact anyone on there.

As to staff turn over someone mentioned upthread. I find that it’s normal in most schools. Majority of teachers are young/ish women and they move around, marry, have kids. It’s part of life.

@MMmomDD you don't get the point that a number of PPs have now made. A board does not need to get involved to have an influence. On the contrary, the most successful boards are the ones that don't get to the point of having to get involved......

Aren't schools like Thomas's, Garden House and Sussex House family owned and run as well (per their own website)? I always wonder why people single out FH and what the basis for this is. As a person who works in finance, I like to invest in companies with strong management teams (the board is far less important). I don't want to over extend that analogy, but with FH I thought I was getting an exceptional management team. I also think the expectation that an entire year group is universally and uniformly happy is absurd (same goes for their parents).

@rasberrycake if you are in the City then you would know you should look at this not from an investor point of view but a stakeholder - a mere parent customer.

More generally it also depends on how you measure "management" and their values against your own values. If you are in the City you will have heard about governance mechanisms too. Which FH seems to have necessitated more than the schools you mention.

I don’t think Falkner House is being “singled out”. I raised the question, but it was about good governance, and the structure at the school mentioned made me raise my eyebrows.

Working in finance is very different to working in education by the way. The metrics are very different.

Just to say we have kids at FH and think it is absolutely, utterly exceptional. So caring, personal, great values, not at all hot-housey in flavour. Feels like a genuine family and the heads care for your kids like they are their own. Of course if you are not into the Griggs family approach (academic, no-nonsense, frank, robust, kind, cares about manners and values, hands-on, makes no bones about importance of English vocabulary skills and learning times tables) then you should go elsewhere as they run it their way. Their way is absolutely fantastic though if it is your cup of tea. (And your boys can go to the equally fab boys school which is a nice bonus).

But agree with other posters that these are all great schools.

Sorry I see you are in finance. Still

It’s probably not helpful to the OP for us to continue with this sidetrack.

Both DH and I went through this whole elite schools trajectory, and although our experiences were a long time ago we have chosen not to subject our daughter to the same pressures. The most enriching person in our daughter’s recent educational development has been someone nobody in an elite oversubscribed school ever encounters - a child with Down’s Syndrome.

Finally, just not true that staff turnover is an issue at all of these schools. Granted, a family-owned school ensures the senior figures never change, but that’s not going to attract exceptional and ambitious teachers.