School won't keep our place - what to do?

[VitAL]

Hi all,
I'm really stuck with a difficult dilemma and would appreciate any thoughts. DC is currently at a very academic pre-prep, we chose it precisely for their leavers' destinations, they send a lot of children to three top selective indies high on our list and some pupils to a couple more selective schools. DC is happy there, but I want to give 4+ a go. I feel I would really regret if I don't, would be thinking all the time about opportunities lost and it's a bit easier to get in at 4+ than 7+. I wouldn't say DC is exceptionally academic at 3.5 but strong-willed (sometimes to the extent of being bossy with even older children), emotionally mature and disciplined/co-operative so I think could do quite well at 4+.

The problem is our school won't keep our place for Reception if they find out we're sitting 4+ and I think they easily can as it has very good links with most of the schools on our list. I have actually sent applications to two schools before I knew about our school's policy (it's not an official policy AFAIK but people talk). I've no idea if they actually ask for references and reports at 4+. I'm still thinking about applying to at least three more schools. I guess (I'm not 100% sure) I could leave the current school's details blank on application forms but I feel bad about it TBH.

If we get kicked out of the current school we might end up with no place at all. We might possibly get a last minute place at a non-selective non-academic indie, but that would mean extra money on tuition for 7+ with less chances and much more uncertainty as we plan to buy a house close to the school if DC gets in at 4+, if not that would be another 3-4 years in limbo.

I'm at a loss what to do and so stressed about the whole situation that I lost sleep. Should I abandon the whole idea and wait until 7+?Please help, I really need to make up my mind.

Though for DC1 it's pretty much obvious as gifted in maths.

Accountant?

London, ironically, has a ton of good state schools.

Jesus fucking christ.

How is the mental health impact assessed for these children?

Does there have to be a mental
Health impact? It's an interesting point but the assumption that accelerated education negatively impacts mental health can't quite be right I think?

Accelerated learning or high pressure environment?

Well there is absolutely some accelerated learning going on, we don't really know whether it's a high pressure environment I don't think?

But either I suppose

Why does being gifted in maths make a career obvious? I haven't got a clue what being gifted in maths would lead to. I know quite a few people who are gifted in maths and they include people who make a living from being doctors, actuaries, City mathmos, TA's and poker players.

Ds2 seems a natural at chemistry and there's a strong family background of being jolly good at chemistry. I'll be stunned if he even takes it at A level, let alone makes a career out of it as he thinks it's dull.

My eldest knew his alphabet at 3. He used to love Countdown and picked it up from there. He also knew all the symbols for maths calculations from a magnet set we had. 'Give me the equals sign ds1' and he would.

He nearly a grown up now and is non-verbal, severely disabled and requires 24 hour care.

My youngest, who wouldn't have been looked at twice by any of these schools couldn't read until 6. He has an outwards turning squint and for various reasons was not given glasses until later and struggled with reading across lines. Once the letters stayed where they were meant to he learned very quickly. He's the one who is the most academic.

Beware of assessing intelligence on a 4 year olds ability to read or not.

Have read threads like this over the years and it is an eye opener. Not relevant to me because I'm not gifted, kids aren't, and can't afford it, and don't live near this..... but I have 'played the game' , the God game mentioned earlier, by sending my ds's to a catholic school even though I'm not actually catholic, which I'm open about.

But the fit, and the journey are so true. I regret some of my choices. I wonder whether you will look back in 20 years and consider all this worth it?????

I lived in North London until three months ago. This is not normal.

Love how north London is spoken about as some homogeneous place where everyone is like OP 😭 There must be 2 million people living in north London

I know a lot of people in London who have refused to engage with this silliness and said it is unnecessary. Their state school kids have done very well indeed (even judging 'very well' by the narrow definitions employed by many who engage in all this nonsense).

I agree it's about the journey - but a high pressured journey comes at some costs.

Please realise that your DC is only not as gifted as the rest of you SO FAR and in the very narrow parameters that you've set. You've no idea how they will do in arts and sport or any other area. I truly hope it's not an accepted way of thinking of and referring to your child. Stop it.

"It's just early stages curriculum, just a year or so ahead of the cohort. DC has been doing lots of spelling recently as far as I can tell as tries to read every single street name on the way home. Plus some behavioural training like sitting, concentrating, following instructions, speaking in front of the class doing kind of 'presentation' etc. That's just the basics needed to be able to cope with a fast pace at a highly selective school later on"
How can a 3.5 year old be a year or so ahead of their contemporaries? That just doesn't make sense.
DS2 never went to nursery or to school till year 1 because I felt he'd be happier at home. We were lucky we lived in a rural location and had endless space, he spent most of his time outside having fun, he was an avid tree climber, we played games made up stories, I read endless books or we listened to audio books, walked our dogs, and he rode his pony. He has aways been interested in numbers moving them around, adding subtracting etc and art from a very early age but he did the former on his own the latter with encouragement form my DM who was an artist. He couldn't read or write, when he went to school, he didn't know his letters, he could only write his name, I've never owned a flashcard etc. Within one term he was at the same level of reading as his class mates (no great achievement in a tiny village primary and by the end of yr 1 he was a "free reader". He went to an average non selective boarding prep prep at 7 (where his reading was on the same level as those who'd been hothoused learnt at 3 and then went onto a "highly selective boarding school" at 13, we declined a place at SPS who commented in the offer letter on how articulate he was and his outstanding ability (at 10) to formulate a coherent argument. I genuinely believe all this is because he was not hothoused and that staying at home till year 1 enabled him to develop other skills. OP your DC does not need need to be hot housed at 3.5 to get into a highly selective school let him/her be what they he/she is: a child.

My eldest taught hiself to read before starting school; my youngest did not.

the younger one is more school-shaped and more successful at school, so probably 'brighter;' by the OP's definition.

Honestly, assuming that ability at 3 = ability for life = success in career is, at best, error-prone and at worst, very harmful. By already categorising your younger child as 'not as bright' you are setting up a family dynamic that yes, may lead to them being less successful...but as a result of the family dynamic, nothing at all to do with raw ability.

"assuming that ability at 3 = ability for life = success in career"
I do think that some children show exceptional ability even at a very young age DS2 has always been exceptional at math he was playing with and adding up numbers on his own at 18 months. But lets look at the bigger picture, does this mean that he'll be more successful in his career? TBH I don't think it does. How do we measure successful career? Is that our main motivation for our children? What about happiness and health above everything else? The ability to form meaningful relationships with others? Live fulfilled lives? Be a throughly decent kind individual? I listened to a mum whose DC tragically died at 16 she said now she realises that exam success, future carer success, the right university, getting into a highly selective school all these things we fret and worry about are all meaningless, that she wasted time and energy on all of these things, and that she'd give all that up to have him back. I know she would want you to really understand this, to not find out the way she found out and for us all to apply to it our parenting.

I think that's true happygardening. Having a severely disabled child is another great way of gaining perspective. I think that has benefitted ds2 & ds3 (especially with 2 rather over educated parents ) Focus on relationships and mental health. Leave the kids to choose their careers when they're old enough to know what they want.

Happygardening, i would absolutely agree with you.

I come from an entirely Oxbridge educated family, with higher degrees flying around like confetti.

None of us have 'successful careers' in the way that the world might expect - charity work, church work, creative work, education, caring. We range from church mice poor to moderately comfortable, but none of us are 'successful' in a worldly sense. Happy, though.

Oh we're the same cant

I find 'success' measured in monetary terms rather depressing tbh

But then real cream does sometimes rise to the top of its own accord. ;-)

Love it. My DS is at a top RG university yet he was educated at primary and secondary schools that were in special measures when he started there, had a higher than average percentage of FSM and EFL pupils.

I think it makes sense that a 3 year old could be a year ahead if you're working on expectations of the early years curriculum? So that would state at 9 months they should be doing x, at 24 months they should be doing x y z ("should be" is too strong a word here but you know what I mean) so I take OPs post to mean that the children in their school are meeting the targets of a 4 year old rather than a 3 year old as per the Ciriculum?

Early years is followed by all child care settings and I think another poster used a good and relevant (and more common) analogy- that children who have been in
Private Day nursery often start school "further ahead" of children who haven't been- using the example of 5 year olds just starting school being exhausted by it. Whereas for children who have attended day nursery, it's not hot housing, it's just their life.

Except the EYFS curriculum development matters expectations are 30-50 months so a three year old would be expected to work in that very broad band.

Our nursery at least have split that into more specific outcomes-which I imagine is very common. After all they're only in some rooms for 6 months.