Skipping a year at primary: is it really so bad? Is it worse than NOT skipping?

[Arkadia]

Hi all,

I have been reviewing some threads, here and elsewhere, on the above subject and the opinion seems to be generally negative. However I cannot see why doing otherwise, i.e. NOT skipping a year, would be better.

In a nutshell, DD is currently in a composite 1-2 class. She was put in that class on the advice of the nursery because they felt she needed extra challenges to keep her interested. At nursery she was singularly unengaged and she failed to make any meaningful connection with either children or staff (not that she was unhappy at the idea of going, buy just uninterested).
We were a bit apprehensive at the idea of starting school because, although she seemed OK academically, she was rather withdrawn from an emotional point of view. However, after talking to the headteacher we went for the composite class and waited - note, in our case going for the composite class was against school policy because it is usually reserved for older P1s and younger P2s, but DD is a younger P1 being born at the end of October (we are in Scotland), so the headteacher made an exception.

I am happy to say that DD is much happier in the school environment and she is actually much more engaged both with the teachers and the pupils. So far so good :)
Interestingly, AFAIK she has bonded only with the P2s in her class. The P1s are much more in the background in what she tells us.
Work wise she has been doing both the P1 and he P2 work and (for what it is worth), I would expect her to be top of the P2 in the 3 Rs.

Now, next year I think it would be best of her to go to the P2-3 composite class, but that is the last one on offer. At this moment in time, to go to a P2 would be like repeating a year and it seems meaningless to me. If she goes to the P2-3 she will stay with her friends and the year after she can go straight to P4, again, with most of her friends - note that at our school they sometime mix the pupils from one year to the next.

I have read all the objections stated in other threads which in a nutshell say that problems may arise in the future when the child grows up (puberty, starting to drive, being unable to be out till late, etc.). However, I wonder, is it worth worrying about something that may or may not happen when the alternative now is certainly not great? To have her repeat a year now would cut her off from the environment she has known at school and she would have to redo the work she has already done with ease (I doubt the teacher would be able/willing to set a different workload for her); I am bored only thinking about it... :)

OK, she may still need to sprint further ahead academically (at home she is doing what her P3 sister is doing anyway...), but let's think about one thing a time.

Any ideas?

No child should be bringing home new or actually challenging work for homework. It's designed to consolidate the knowledge they've already required - she should be able to whizz through it.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett, I understand that, but it is (perhaps) 15 weeks of the same thing. If you whizz through the first page you can similarly do the same for the other14, so what is the point? This is what puzzles me (but it is not the first time I see it done, so I am not entirely surprised.).

anotherdayanothersquabble, forgot to say... I don't know anyone who HEs, but personally I find myself not equipped to do it (nor would I have the patience :D). If anything, English is not my first language.
I can teach maths because I know it and I enjoy doing it, but that's about it.

My DH skipped a year at school, went to Oxford at 17 etc. There is no way we will be allowing it to happen to our very bright five-year-old. The social side of school is far more important. A bright child can learn all sorts of stuff at home, but there's no real substitute for age appropriate socialisation at school. I often see posts from parents of bright children which seem to want to dwell on their academic potential rather than their social difficulties, I'm not sure why.

I havnt read the whole thread, but just want to add another point. We had sports day here today, in a school which regularly places out of year due to previous schooling differences (expat school).
The race winners were, almost without fail, those with the longest legs, who were, almost without exception, those who would have been in an older year if the school went strictly by date of birth. I felt sorry for the kids who were 20 months younger than the race winner who cruised through.
So maybe think about sports, OE, sports day, and playing in the e.g. under 11 netball team.

I was 'old in year', started school late (different country, I was 7.2), and high ability. Coasted through school always thinking the next step up (e.g. selective next stage) would finally provide some challenge, but I ended up with a postgrad degree with 'full marks' without having had to put in a lot of mental work.
Although I 'stayed with my year group', I had a hard time socially and emotionally pretty much from age 11 right through to 23. Causing depression and vulnerability to emotional abuse. Just to show that staying with your 'correct' year group does not immunise you against social/emotional problems.
And in the long term, never having to exert myself for my achievements has not been good for me either. I struggle with perfectionism which can be really quite disabling.

Sometimes I wonder if I had just started school a year earlier (which would have been an option), or skipped a year at some point - how my life would have turned out?

Now it sounds as if your DD might still easily be top even if she did skip a year. So skipping would do nothing about the coasting issue! In fact, in the year ahead, she may be top but perhaps not exceptionally so, whereas in her 'correct' year she is an outlier - the latter may attract more individual stretching and tailored challenges, whereas in the former she may just be lugged in with the 'top table' despite actually needing more challenge.
And the social issues, of being up to 2 years younger than her mates, may turn out (sooner or later) to be huge.
I understand your DD in question is DC2. Mine is DC1. I see him with his younger sibling and see how school is forcing him to grow up sooner than he 'should' IMO. Yes he can cope, now, emotionally and socially, but he shouldn't need to. I feel being youngest in school is cheating him of the opportunity to be a 'little child' for a while longer. I think perhaps with a DC2 this is harder to perceive.

In your situation I'd go with staying where she is, as exceptionally able young-in-year, and work with the school to find appropriate challenges for her. If the school does not deliver, it probably wouldn't in the year above either, and hurrying through school would just mean she has fewer years to be a child. If school does not deliver, there is a lot you can do outside of school. With our DS, we have been focusing on stretching 'sideways' e.g. learning to read in our home language, chess, coding, looking at interesting maths problems (Murderous Maths books as bedtime stories). Thinking about starting an instrument. But also importantly remembering that he is just a small child who needs time to be 'bored' and time that is not structured.

If school means coasting and a danger of perfectionism, then that is a real worry, but you can do something about that. And you probably would have to if she were to skip a year, too. So might as well deal with the challenges that come with having a gifted child whilst keeping her in the 'correct' year group, rather than adding additional challenges by 'accelerating'.

On the side, I do think there are situations were acceleration is absolutely fine! Especially in schools/school systems where it is the 'norm' and when everybody is on board to really try to make it work.

Thanks BW for your insightful comment. Are you Finnish perchance?

You lost me here, though:
I understand your DD in question is DC2. Mine is DC1. I see him with his younger sibling and see how school is forcing him to grow up sooner than he 'should' IMO. Yes he can cope, now, emotionally and socially, but he shouldn't need to. I feel being youngest in school is cheating him of the opportunity to be a 'little child' for a while longer. I think perhaps with a DC2 this is harder to perceive.

Then you said If the school does not deliver, it probably wouldn't in the year above either
and most likely you are right. Skipping a year you are swapping one set of problem for a different one, while the underlying "issue" (for want of a better word) is still there.
And then:
But also importantly remembering that he is just a small child who needs time to be 'bored' and time that is not structured.
hahahaha, there is plenty of that.
Actually she is not doing any extra stuff outside the school because she is... too little, so we have to wait till next year, and in any case she has not shown a desire to do much yet (but she does see sister doing this and that, so she knows she has the option).

Why do you think she is too little de has been doing classes since she was tiny she needs it. She started Spanish at 5, ballet, swimming she needs to be kept busy

Another anecdote on the other side: I skipped a year in primary (the equivalent of year 4), stayed in the older group throughout school, including when I changed schools for sixth form, and it all worked out absolutely fine.

I was still at the top of the ability range in the older year, and was tall for my age, so I think a lot of the time no one realised or remembered that I was younger. I was interviewed and offered a place at Cambridge when I was 16, but they recommended that I take a year out rather than starting straight after A-levels, when I would have been 17, and that was fine by me.

I don't think social maturity was an issue; in fact by the time I was 16 I was spending a lot of my out-of-school time with friends in their 20s. It might be more of a problem now that pubs check IDs...

But it all really depends on the child and the school, and there are risks of it not working out. Repeating a school year would be absolute torture for a bright child, so if you have good communication with the school and think that they will really be able to give meaningful extension work, then the safer option would probably be to stick with the 'proper' year instead of running the risk of your child having to move down a year later.

I'm just musing, but last night I watched DS playing with his younger sister (nearly 4 years younger) and they were finding the same things amusing. He likes to watch Peppa Pig with her, they sing nursery rhymes together, they play on the see-saw together. Because we take the younger child to the park, he gets a lot of climbing around and playing with equipment that is totally age-appropriate BUT if we didn't have a younger child, we would probably not be taking him there very often. He would probably not want to go because it is not 'cool'. Especially if he had an older sibling and wanted to be all grown up like him/her! But having a younger sibling, I am often (helpfully) reminded that he is in fact still very little, only 6 years old, and that he would not even be at school yet in our home country (which is not Finland - some other countries start late too!)
I think that perhaps if your child in question only has older siblings they are easily roped into more 'mature' activities and it is easier to 'forget' that at that age they actually still enjoy, and benefit from 'little kids' stuff.

Rather than homework and maths problems and 'quizzes' in preparation for SATS, he'd be spending 3h/day at Kindergarten (where he would NOT be taught letters or numbers, but WOULD be taught things like tying shoe laces, and he'd be walking himself there and back every day) and spend the rest of the day playing, indoors and out, at times unsupervised.
So I feel school is making him 'grow up' sooner than necessary. In that he has to spend a large part of his day working at a desk, in that he is being assessed against national standards, and in that he had to learn to negotiate an environment with 29 other kids who are all older than him. Moving him up a year would mean other pressures (like KS2 SATS, 11+, choosing GCSE options, ...) being put on him earlier than necessary, where otherwise he could enjoy 'being a child' for longer.

I skipped a year, did fine academically, struggled socially, continued to struggle socially until I took a gap year and went "back" into my cohort.

bit miserable TBH, I did fine, well even academically, would have done much better IMO academically and socially if I'ld stayed in my year.

I skipped a year when my parents immigrated and it was found I was well ahead of my peer group. I coped and excelled academically but with hindsight I think socially I was disadvantaged.
I would try to extend your DD with other things like art or an instrument or a language. I would also consider moving schools to a bigger school as it sounds like she is swimming in a very small pond at the moment and in terms of both academic competition and peer friendships she may fare better in a larger school without composite classes (I realise this might not be practical but am throwing it out there - I haven't read the whole thread).

Oh and one more thought. DS struggled a lot to deal socially with his class, initially (he's fine now). I think being younger, but just a little bit younger, can be quite hard. Some of your 'peers' use their extra months of age/extra maturity to 'score points' against you, or may take advantage of your relative naivety. Whereas the kids from the year above (in your composite classes) have less need to score points, and will be older by a larger margin, so it is easier for them to 'look after' the younger kid. They have more maturity and are not in direct 'competition'.

That may be part of the explanation for your DD being more comfortable with the kids from the year above. If that were the case, then I would think that her current friendships with the older children should not figure much in your decision as to move her up or not. Because that 'looking after the little kid' can easily turn nasty - maybe as soon as said 'little kid' is officially in the same year!

gpignname, we are going to a big school. Some 4-500 pupils. There are 2,5 p1,2 and 3 and then 2 p4-7

Quartz2208: in some cases she IS too small (min age is 6), but in general she has expressed no desire to do it, even when it was possible. She does want to take up swimming, but that would have to be the council classes. they are actually OK, but 1) they last only for 30 (!!) mins and (guess what) 2) she has pretty much done what they have to offer. I am stalling till she is older, so she can go to the local swimming club with her sister, so it is only one run, and in general their classes are MUCH better value (and last for 60 mins at pretty much the same cost). In any case we go swimming at least once a week, so she gets the practice anyway.

Can I ask why you think the school year will solve or cause your DD issues? You paint a picture of a child who is and has been emotionally withdraw and who is uninterested and who does not want to do extra curricular activities because she does not want to. She seems to have engaged with the current teacher and made some friends and that makes you happy.

Sorry OP, I guess where I am I associate composite classes with smaller schools but clearly not applicable to your situation. I would still try and work towards keeping her in with her age group as she is already at the younger end anyway. I found that friendship groups changed enormously as my DC got older and moved into junior school (P4) so wouldn't focus too much on the friends she has age 6.

I ended up having a gap year before university and I really needed that - it helped me no end and although I hadn't been unhappy socially I look back and realise I was less confident and mature and that it would have been better for me not to have been so young going through secondary school.

Some additional thoughts that I haven't seen discussed but I am only skimming the thread.
For context one of my sons is v v bright and exceptional at maths (teachers say might manage Olympiad as a teen).
1.When he was in nursery and reception, aged 3-5, he was rather adrift socially. He could read at 7 year old standard aged 3 (the nursery teacher tested him) and he would get irritated by the other children not knowing what things said, would intervene when they were reading labels wrong, etc. We were quite concerned about his social development at the time. However over time his peers have all learned to read, do maths etc and it is just a matter of differentiation and he has a really lovely friendship group who don't remember that grumpy little boy who was always correcting them.

1. The curriculum is not static. Differences show up more starkly at 'skill acquisition' zone, which your daughter is in, when they are learning to read, spell and manipulate number. This changes around year 3/4 to application, now everyone can read etc and the emphasis is on content, knowledge, application. Individual difference is easier to deal with now, eg one child might be expected to write a few sentences, another a full story using paragraphing etc . It then changes again around year 7/8 to requiring evidence based opinion and inference. This is again a great leveller and not all fast acquirers of skills are good at this (my elder son has gone from streets ahead in reading in reception to bottom English set, praying for a GCSE pass as he really struggles with these skills. Mechanical reading, spelling, grammar are faultless).

So as well as all the social issues repeatedly flagged, there are curricular issues where it is not always the same children at the top of the academic pile all through. In fact I think a lot of highly systematizing early readers/ counters struggle with opinion and inference. And the fact that differences between a bright 10 and ordinary 10 year old are maybe less stark than between a bright 5 year old who can read spell etc fluently and an ordinary 5 year old who still has to learn those skills.

Any good teacher can meet a range of needs. My v bright DS has differentiated maths and we do a bit of extra 'fun' maths outside school as well.

I went to school a year early. It wasn't really a problem other than I was artificially short until I was about 15!
We were in England so I was a year young leaving school. I didn't feel 'old' enough to go to university so had a year out. I did what was then called 'The Year In Industry'. Like work experience for a year and was still living at home. It gave me great exposure to what I wanted to study at uni (and helped make my 1st year at uni easier) but also gave me time to mature whilst still living at home with Mum and Dad.
When I got to uni we did have a scottish lad who was a year young for scotland so ridiculously young compared to us (something like 16 or 17). He was lovely but immature and by half term had spent nearly all his allowance for the year (he had some lovely hifi to show for it). His parents removed him from the uni and reappeared to do the first year again a year later. I bumped into him in a nightclub about 10 years ago so it didn't kill him but probably he was too young for the freedom of uni.
Hope this helps. I wouldnt worry about it - its not insurmountable. Funnily enough my husband also started school a year early but he didnt do a year out so graduated when he was 20!

Quartz2208, with regards to extra curricular activities, to me that is perfectly normal. DD1 was the same at that age and started becoming interested in them only later on.
Let's not forget that DD2 is just over 5, so to me, despite this thread, it is not odd that she doesn't' want to engage in something alien to her. To give you an example, this Sunday when we went to the pool, for the first time she dared go down the "big" chute (is that how you spell it?). In the past she would just go up there and then come down. Now SHE was ready (and then she wouldn't stop... :D).
I think now school is her comfort zone: she understands what to expect from it and she is good at it (when she has to do something that she is not sure about, there goes the tantrum of frustration). So in a nutshell... she is a perfectly normal and emotional 5 YO who happens to be rather good at learning (at this moment in time).

After talking here, I have to admit that, as BigWeald and OldBirdy pointed out, skipping a year is not going to be a long term solution in any case which is not the frame of mind I had to start with.

Tonight we went to speak with the teacher and she was all ooohhhs and aaahhhs and she made all the right noises. She also said that next year, even though nobody knows where DD will end up (and a skip has not been ruled out), she will be followed according to her needs.

BTW, the teacher said that no, the booklet DD was given can be finished whenever and she will be more than happy to give us more. :)

My problem, and to me this is a HUGE problem, we don't know who next year's teacher is going to be. We do like THIS teacher, but we cannot quite say the same thing about others. Not that they are necessarily bad, but... The same problem, to a greater extent if you like, afflicts DD1 (P3) because I think she hasn't been very lucky with the selection of teachers she has got so far (and for various reasons she has changed A LOT of them). Say next year DD2 gets a perfectly capable teacher, but who is not THAT interested in spending time 1-1 with her, where do we go from there? (Clearly the same problem would arise should she skip a grade and perhaps even more so as BigWeald (?) pointed out)

Anyway, when in the next few weeks we go to talk to the HT we will have to make sure there is some sort of Grand Plan in place for DD2.

oldbirdy, you say
Any good teacher can meet a range of needs
and I couldn't agree more. But how do you know if you are getting a good teacher?

So why would you move forward a perfectly normal 5 year old who is rather good at learning.

Without offence the decision is questionable one anyway even for the exceptional.

That said yes a lot rides on the teacher, DD has had 2 ok, 1 exceptional and one very good. I am also worried about my son and reception there are three classes and the current lot one is very good one good and one I my opinion not very good at all.

and I couldn't agree more. But how do you know if you are getting a good teacher? not by skipping to whoever teaches the following year? what do you expect to do the following year? skip again? Keep skipping till you get a teacher you like? this isn't a fruit machine!

OP this is getting silly now you're clearly not describing G&T and even then, it'ld not be a given that skipping years would be beneficial

Quartz2208, do you actually read my rather verbose replies? ;)

TinselTwins, if you had actually bothered reading the previous message you would have read that I said that
Clearly the same problem would arise should she skip a grade and perhaps even more so as BigWeald (?) pointed out

If you are keeping your children in the state sector, I'm afraid that you are not going to know (by which I assume you really mean choose) your DCs' teachers- not for P2, not for P7, not for Higher English.

Teachers will be chosen by the HT to suit her school. If you don't trust her, take her out, go private or homeschool.