What would happen if a child didn't want to do their work?

[Classof2032]

Basically that. My 5 year old was kept in at playtime and lost all of her Golden Time today. I feel it was extremely harsh and has the obvious side effect of her deciding that she doesn't like her teacher any more.

AS is a great thing.

Poor kid is in reception. They're supposed to be picking and choosing what they do, most of the time. They're only just learning to do sit-down-and-get-on type work. I think assuming massive behavioural issues is rather out of proportion at this stage.

I think keeping in at playtime and golden time on a friday afternoon is possibly a bit out of proportion too, if it was really only one incident. But we don't know how rude the child may have been, or how hard the teacher tried to cajole her along, or whether it's a pattern that's been going on all week.

Did the teacher/TA help her to actually do the missing work while she was kept in?

Time management is an important life lesson. I get planning time, and if I choose to go next door and spend an hour chatting with another member of staff, then I have to make up that work in my own time.

My students are learning the same lesson. Unfinished work goes in their 'finishing off folder' during the week, and they need to finish it before they can start on their own projects on Friday afternoon. It's not a punishment, it's just merely learning how to manage your time and workload.

I think homework before about Year 3 is ridiculous. It serves very little purpose save to create extra work and stress for everyone.

No idea when it came in or what was behind it but suspect it was pushy parents and politicians trying to score points. Young kids learn best when it feels like play and exploration, not obligation.

Schools set more and more homework yet our Pisa rating is no better than years ago when none was set until about year 3.

Who mentioned homework?

I disagree, catkind. And I totally agree with MidniteScribbler.
Reception is a good time to learn all the rules in school, and listen to teachers/TAs.
They all get into trouble, and learn the lesson, and be ready for more structured work in Yr1.

I agree Irvine. No-one is expecting 100% compliance from reception children. Most of them will have their moment at some point. But that isn't really the issue here. The issue is that the OP doesn't think her child should have to do what her teacher asks her and is sending her that message. She thinks she should be allowed to choose what she does and when she does it. .

And it isn't just an issue from a work point of view. Knowing that the children will follow an instruction when asked is quite important from a safety point of view. Especially in a class situation rather than a 1:1 situation.

I love that you think reception is about playing!

Teachers spend a long time organising activities that have a learning outcome -

It maybe letters in the sand or weights in the water - measuring jugs or chalks or crayons - they still have an objective

Most will be in groups - Group A in the water Group B in the home corner - acting out three little pigs

Carpet time - discussing the characters of the book they are reading - why was the wolf mean? Etc

They don't just rock up and choose what to play!! It's learning through play.

They will be expected to write - teachers will be assessing their story writing letter formation and it goes in an assessment file - ready for the headteacher -

Dear me!

At what point did 'play is an important part of learning' shift to become 'play is the most effective way to learn anything'?

There's an important distinction between the two which seems to be leading to a lot of misconceptions about what happens in Reception. Reception has always been a balance of play and directed activities as far as I am aware.

So this "it's all EYFS it's just the same as preschool" stuff is complete bollocks then? The timetable we were shown when DS started reception said "free play" except for the odd 20 minute slot of maths/phonics and activities like PE. Free play, not go and do what the teacher says right now play. They had learning activities out, they nudged kids to have a go at different things if they were always choosing the same, but it wasn't "thou shalt go and play with water and learn about measuring now". That's what they told us parents anyway.

Because having 15 kids in the sand is going to work!!

They carousel -

They may call it Free play - but they have objectives -

That's what I mean by a balance, catkind. You should have free play and some adult initiated play, but there are also those 20 min slots of directed teaching. That isn't necessarily going to be sitting down at desks with worksheets, but it will be adult directed and children will be expected to do as they are asked.

What it isn't is 5-6 hours a day of completely child initiated free play where children are just exploring.

Preschool don't end up with 15 kids in the sandpit, why would reception? The sort of set-up I've usually seen when visiting reception classes is most of the kids are doing free play indoors and out, and the teacher has a more organised activity going on at one table which they're encouraging small groups at a time to try. Or e.g. pulling kids out to read. So each child is doing the organised activity for a very small proportion of their day.

OP my Ds has had that for years unfortunately that's what he wants (he finds break times extremely boring) and they fall for it every time, they actually believe it is a punishment and I used to feel the same as you do until the day I asked him why he would rather lose his breaks and he told me the above. If it happens once and she conforms as expected just let it go. If it continues I would wonder if it because of the same reasons as my son or something else.

x-post, that's all I meant Rafa, a minority of their time is adult-directed; and of that a lot is more carpet time let's all sing phonics songs together, or in smaller groups where there would be an adult available and chivvying. They're not used to being told to get on and work on their own very much yet. They're still learning. The tone of some posts here seemed very harsh.

And if you really need to punish, 5 minutes off playtime would seem more appropriate at that age and still get the message across. Unless the teacher was actually working with the child through playtime and golden time in which case OP should be thanking them for amazing 1:1 time. Or there's Other Stuff going on here that OP doesn't know about.

I think the point is that the OPs child refused to work for the 15-20 minutes when asked (possibly because they wanted to continue to do what they wanted)

Not that they are required to work all day and every day

And the child would not be left alone at break to complete their work, the teacher/TA would need to be with them, but STILL the OP's daughter refused!

CodyKing - have you ever been in a Reception Class? I have never experienced the set up that you describe, children directed to go and play certain things in groups.

It does happen. There's a huge variety in the way that different schools set up their reception classes.

It certainly shouldn't happen and I hope that those schools are in a tiny minority. The EYFS requires a balance of child-initiated play and adult led activities. Children being organised into activities all day does not fulfil that.

A carousel system is a very old fashioned way of working.
Many reception classes don't have play times because there is free play throughout the day.

I think they are probably in an increasing minority, Although most wouldn't be directed for the whole day.

But enhanced provision is planned and has an objective. And I don't think it's uncommon even in very play based settings for children to be expected to access at least some of those enhanced areas over the course of the week.

Cody is right when she says even play based learning doesn't just involve children just turning up and playing. There is a certain amount of thought and planning that goes into setting up the environment in order to extend children's learning.

What concerns me is the degree of shock and outrage, in posts from supposed educational professionals (I say supposed because I don't think the shock and outrage is professional or warranted)and others, regarding the OP's daughter's refusal, in school, to do a piece of school work, when she seemed to be developing an illness.

Yes, I mentioned additional needs, simply because there are many additional needs which can manifest in a child refusing to do their school work, which teachers will have come across in their careers. My main point is the behaviour should not be that shocking, not that this child necessarily has any additional needs but many children, they will have seen do. For those of us whose children have had some additional needs this is upsetting. I want the teacher's who deal with my child to be calm, caring, capable and well, just, professional.

A lot of posters seemed quick to blame the parent. Yet the OP did not seem shocked that there was a 'battle of wills', as she put it, when her child was issued with a ultimatum. It sounds like she is familiar with dealing with this kind of behaviour, successfully. She knows that ultimatums and punishments do not work for her daughter and wrongly assumed, it seems, that teachers would be able to handle the situation differently.

It would not shock me either, not all children are compliant, not all respond well to ultimatums or punishments, for a variety of reasons, that I spoke about upthread (not simply bad parenting). I would have assumed the some of teachers posting on this thread would have been familiar with dealing with similar behavioural issues so would have more in their armoury than ultimatums and punishment to help support this child.

To me, the criticism of the parent seems just like the teaching profession clubbing together in an attempt to not take any responsibility for dealing with anything less than a totally compliant 5 year old (and parent) or possess any flexibility in their approach to children with differing needs.

Thought and planning in setting up the environment isn't the same as sending Group A to the water tray to do measuring and Group B to the home corner to do 3 Little Pigs roleplay. That doesn't count as child-led or even as play.