Our youngest didn't get into the same school as his 16 month older brother - can't split myself in two! - appeal?

[OhForFrigSake]

Ok, so my eldest son goes to a lovely village school jus outside of our catchment. We applied for his place and were surprised he got in last year.

This year his younger brother didn't get in - he has been allocated a school within our PAA.

The problem is, I cannot split myself in two to drop them both off at the same time. The eldest has just gone 5 and youngest not 4 yet - they're still young - I can't leave them waiting around the school to go in/ come out and wait without me there.

I've estimated that if I drop the youngest one off first at 9am (which makes sense as it's the closest school), I'll then need to get the eldest into the car, and 2 miles through the village (very congested - especially as we'll be late and parents will be leaving the site by that time). By the time we get there the eldest will be between 20 minutes to half an hour late to school. We'll then have to do this in reverse on a night and I'm guessing the teacher or TA in my youngest's school won't wait on for 30 minutes while I'm late to get him every single day!

The school drop off/ pick up will become a logistical nightmare with no choice but for us to be late for each school once a day - furthermore I work for myself and the idea of different inset days/ school plays/ school events is already making me want to cry.

Should I appeal on the grounds that the original allocation was 'a decision so outrageous in its defiance of logic that no sensible person who applied his mind to the question could have arrived at it?' (Wording taken from the appeal guidelines). Do you think I have a chance of success at appeal?

I assume that the reason he didn't get in is over subscription. Our admission criteria is:

1. looked after children and children with special educational needs
2. children in the PAA with siblings in the school
3. children in the PAA
4. children outside the PAA with siblings in the school
5. children outside the PAA

Our neighbours on the next street got their out of catchment sibling in the same school so I guess they were the last child to get in and we were the cut off

I think you need to weigh up the pros and cons of all of your options. The pros for moving your elder seem to far-outweigh the alternatives (being late everyday, cost, time)

Give over, I don't have any 'arguments' I literally found out earlier today that this was the situation. It's not like I have given any of this a massive amount of consideration at this point - I am just trying to gather advice and support from likeminded parents so I'd appreciate not being criticised for theoretical parenting decisions I have not had chance to fully consider. I don't WANT to move either child, ideally I'd get the youngest into our first preference school which is why I am canvassing opinions on appeals/ waiting lists.

If we need to move the eldest obviously I will carefully consider that further down the line (given our appeal/ chances on the waiting list come to nothing), but I really don't want to. The first choice school is such a great school, my eldest son (who can be a bit set in his ways/ likes routine) absolutely loves it and has a great friendship group there. I might be better off just accepting that they go to separate schools and putting up with the massive inconvenience and cost/ logistical difficulties?

I will of course accept the place - I don't want DS2 to be without a school at all.

Sympathies, OP. A few years back, our neighbour's twins got placed in different schools several miles apart , against all expectations, so they were faced with the logistical problems on top of trying to cheer up two reception-age new starters who were bewildered at being apart - argh!

(They did what people are advising here - put each on the waiting list at the other's school, and moved them to be together as soon as a place came up.)

You have loads of options: (some of them are crackers but they may spark a thought)

1. Move into catchment
2. Move out of area somewhere cheaper so you can afford breakfast club
3. Suck up paying for breakfast club
4. Home school til he gets a place
5. When your dh is at home each take different child to school - when he's not at home pay for breakfast club/childminder or be late
6. Car share with neighbour - they may take one kid to school if they're going already with your profuse thanks/payment

I would just pay for breakfast club and cut back somewhere else

good luck

Ooooh - I've had another thought - is the school you've been given for your younger one also oversubscribed? And is there likely to be kids on the waiting list for that school from the catchment area for the school you want.

This happens a bit where we live - two good schools very close to each other with slightly random catchment areas. It means that the waiting lists move faster than expected as if a single place opens up in either school then you have a zigzag effect as Person 1 accepts the place at School A thus opening a place in School B, Person 2 accepts the place in School B thus opening a place in School A and so on.....

Do you know how much breakfast and after school club are? They may not be as much as you think.

Most breakfast clubs are £2

Cody, our's is £4 per child per day, with a discount if you book a whole week.

The criteria placing in catchment children above out of catchment DC is quite common and stops people grabbing a place for DC1 then moving miles away etc
I wish we had it. It's always a risk if DC1 goes to a non catchment school where they exist. Juggling two schools us not uncommon in our neighbouring LA for the same reason.
I'd look at breakfast club, CM and car share options. I would not let my DC be late all the time as its massively disruptive for teachers and the children.
Lots of parents move children in YrR or Yr1. Millions of working parents have to find the cash for wrap round care too. Often breakfast clubs are free or min charge.

One thing to consider is that if your DS1s year is full at the second choice school, his would also be an ICS appeal since he's KS1. So may not be all that easy to 'just move the older child'.

I didn't realise breakfast club was so affordable. I'll check that out as an option. So thanks.

Interesting about the zigzag effect! I'm not sure if our second place will be as oversubscribed as the first place as its not quite as good but it's entirely possible that one or two of those who put down school 1 as an option don't take it up and we could edge in that way on the waiting list!

Most of the breakfast clubs near us are around £2 a day

It's not necessarily that easy to move the oldest child, as he still comes within infant class size restrictions. If the school allocated to the younger child has 30 children within his year group they won't be able to offer a place.

OP, I think you might as well appeal, there's nothing to lose.

Round here, there are separate Infant and Junior schools, so it's a given that at some point you are going to have primary-aged kids at two different schools. People just manage! Breakfast clubs, dropping children at 8.30am with nearby friends, staggering collections.....

An acquaintance of mine has seven children, and moved house to about ten miles away. She wasn't able to transfer all the children at the same time, so ended up for a couple of terms juggling FIVE different schools/nurseries - without any childcare. She managed, somehow (it required a certain amount of independence from her older ones), and I vowed I'd never moan about the logistics of two schools ever again!

Gosh Cointreau - that makes me feel queasy just thinking about it! She sounds like superwoman!

Just a caution about gambling on the waiting list ... DD was 5th on the list at the start of the year and 8th by the end of the year.

We moved her at the end of year 1 and she was fine, so I agree with putting both children on the list for the other school.

Is there a waiting list at the catchment school for DD1's year? If so I'd put his his name on that. I know you don't ideally want to move him (and I think that's sensible for now as DS2 is high on waiting list) but it would keep your option open.

It is worth checking the LA haven't made a mistake too as then you might have a chance to appeal.

must not wait .yes you can request another school but you have an automatic right to your nearest one and will only get another one if there are spaces free .you must register with your local first .

I've just checked with LAA - had they used 'shorted designated route' to calculate distance we'd have been closer to the school than the family a few doors down but as it was they use 'as the crow flies' so they're closer (by literally feet). Grrrr.

No you have zero chance of appeal, last year dd did not get a place at the school of her eldest sibling. I appealed and my grounds were eldest child is disabled making a change of school impossible for her neither can she travel to school without myself. Allocated school was so far away that I couldn't travel that far with my wheelchair ( can't drive in the mornings due to nighttime opiate medication.)
School eldest dd was at was Catholic and round the corner , Catholics were allocated places before siblings.
Also we would have been allocated a place had we not moved a street away from our previous address and we only moved as I needed adapted accomadation and had no choice in the move.
Despite all of the above our appeal was rejected.

Sorry eldest sibling still in primary school.

When I moved four years ago I couldn't get either of my children into any schools within the catchment. My teen ended up at a school in a different county, 6 miles away over the border. And dd2 who was 6 was allocated a school 3 miles in the opposite direction. There was a primary school literally 200ft from our front door.

Within a few weeks I met another mum who had just moved and her children were facing the same problem except hers were in three different schools so for 2 years I picked up her middle child and drove her to and from school with my dd as it enabled her to drop the eldest off and then take the youngest into his school.

Now she's in year 5 I've moved her to middle school which is in a walkable distance from home. Unfortunately you just need to suck it up and either wait it out or find another parent to help with the driving.

Seven - you poor thing - that sounds like an absolute nightmare and actually really puts my own situation into perspective. Some of the lovely mum's at DS1s school were offering to help with drop off and pick up when I picked him up which is nice.