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Primary School offered, not possible, how likely would an appeal be successful.

237 replies

LeeandEmma88 · 17/04/2016 21:52

Hello all,

We have read this forum many times but our situation has led to us feeling the need to create an account for advice.

This isn't the typical "We didn't get our preferred school, but it is a good school so can I appeal" post, so please bear with me whilst we explain.

My family has lived in the area of our preferred primary school now for 10 years, with us being located here for 5. The reason we moved to the area was solely for this primary school. We have had our Son's name on the school list since 2013 when he was approximately 10 months old, he is now 3 years and 8 months old and will be starting school this September 2016.

My wife and I work full time jobs and these jobs are unfortunately located out of the area, my wife working 1 hour from home and myself working 30 minutes away.
We also have a 9 month old baby who will be starting daycare in September of this year. This leads us to a bit of an issue, in regards to dropping off children.

It would not be possible for my wife to drop off our baby at daycare, our son at school and then travel to work. she has tried to go part time and drop morning hours but to drop off both and get to work is just too much, leaving her approx an hour late each day.
It is not possible for myself to drop hours as I am a manager at work and have several employees under my sole responsibility. I have to be at work when they are so to say.

This means we need assistance, which comes from my Mother. She is retired but does not drive, she lives on the same road as us meaning both the preferred school and our house are walking distance (she actually has to pass our house to get to the school).

Now we haven't been offered a place at either of our 2 local and preferred schools, which in normal circumstances I would just put it down to over-subscription and learn to live with it. But since January 2016 when the application process was closed my Father has taken ill in health meaning he requires full care which is provided by my Mother.

My wife's employer has agreed to shorten her hours on 2 days meaning she can drop off and collect (based on the thought we would have gotten our preferred school) leaving my Mother to drop off and collect the remaining 3 days of the school week. Now my mother doesn't drive as mentioned earlier so needs a school in walking distance (she cannot leave my Father for a length of time) this leaves two schools, both which were on our application. The 1st choice is 0.3 miles and takes 6 minutes to walk, the 2nd choice we had is 0.6 miles and takes 15 minutes to walk, now the offered choice which we didn't even know existed is 1.8 miles away and takes 45 minutes to walk (these times are one-way not round trips). The choice given would take 4 hours walking time per day to drop off and collect for my Mother, this is not even a possibility due to my Father's health.

We know the preferred school has 30 placements up for grabs and half of these have been filled with siblings, this leaves around 15 places to fill with other criteria. We live 0.3 miles away and can walk to the school within 6 minutes, not many people at all live closer than us, the reason we chose this address. Where do you lot think we would stand with an appeal taking all of the above into consideration?

We would be taking all my Father's medical history to any appeal, along with work contracts to show hours etc as we really feel we should have been offered a place at one of the 2 schools. We also have to take into account though, that the local council do not know of my Father's ill health as it has all happened 'after' the application process. We honestly thought luck would be well within our side as we live so close to the school (we can just about see it from our house) but this isn't the case obviously.

Any help or advice is appreciated.

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eddiemairswife · 19/04/2016 10:03

The 2 miles is the statutory walking distance not 'as the crow flies'.

tiggytape · 19/04/2016 10:04

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tiggytape · 19/04/2016 10:08

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TimeOfGlass · 19/04/2016 10:26

The free transport provision where i live tends to be a mixture of taxis and minibuses / buses (buses specifically for taking children to / from school, not standard public transport). We don't have great public transport links which is probably why it's not free public transport passes handed out.

Presumably the decision about whether to fund a taxi or a bus is dependent on how many children in an area are forced to travel at least 2 miles to the nearest school with places.

MiniMover · 19/04/2016 13:44

Op, maybe we could swap? Wink

I've been offered my nearest school. 2form entry, top 100 in the country, about 150 applications for 60 places last year. Stupidly high sats results. Everybody seems to want it but me. I put 4 choices, and didn't put nearest school at all yet that's what I've been given despite clearly not wanting it and so many others desperate for a place. LA have said nowhere else remotely close has a place so I'm advised to take it or end up with nothing.

MiniMover · 19/04/2016 13:49

I do think the op here has invested too much in one school due to it's Ofsted. I'd understand if he was genuinely religious but he's not so why on earth would you buy a house specifically to be in catchment for a school that may not be great when you visit or by the time of the next Ofsted.

RustySwanson · 19/04/2016 13:54

MiniMover, so you have been given that school even though it wasn't on your list of preferences when it has previously been oversubscribed? And people who wanted to go there this year missed out? How does that work?

MiniMover · 19/04/2016 13:58

I don't know. The LA said every one of my choices was also oversubscribed. We are fairly urban. They said if that's the case they look at where I next fit and as I qualified for a catchment place at nearest school then I get that. Despite not wanting it and despite so many other people desperate for it. It's crazy!

mouldycheesefan · 19/04/2016 14:12

Mini mover why don't you want that school?

MiniMover · 19/04/2016 14:25

Because it's elitist and all about the sats. Ds3 is very bright. Not gifted but very bright. He's reading well, counting and adding/subtracting within 50 already. When we visited, the HT just seemed impressed by this at the exclusion of everything else. Talked about a G&T stream and how well they could stretch him. I also know that Y6 from Christmas until May is nothing but sats says sats. It's nothing like the type of school I want for him. My first and second choices were much more so as they are situated in more challenging areas (not awful but nowhere near as affluent) so their curriculum was more based around enrichment which is what I'm looking for.

tiggytape · 19/04/2016 16:14

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barbarafyles · 19/04/2016 16:19

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prh47bridge · 19/04/2016 16:23

Does the council have to provide a taxi or is it free bus fares?

The council has to provide some form of free transport. The form of the provision is up to the council. A taxi is common for this age group but other options are possible.

It was taking them an hour and half to reach their allocated school

In terms of appeals that should be what matters rather than the absolute distance. If the school is 10 miles away but the journey only takes 40 minutes each way the distance and travelling time shouldn't be a factor in the appeal. However, if the school is 3 miles away but the journey takes an hour each way that is unreasonable for a primary school child and could lead to a successful appeal.

JeffreySadsacIsUnwell · 19/04/2016 16:37

Reported the spam. As you were!

Catmuffin · 19/04/2016 16:40

Maybe mini's school was undersubscribed this year?

MiniMover · 19/04/2016 16:57

Thank you tiggy, that is really helpful. Can I just clarify before I call again. They told me that the reason I was allocated that school is because I didn't get a place at any schools on my form therefore it goes back to my nearest school whose criteria we fit. I already know from the grapevine that lots of people wanted this school and have been given their second or third choice instead.

So basically, they should have been offered it despite me being closer because they put it on their form? If that's the case then something has gone wrong. I need to call again. I'm a teacher but I know nothing about reception admissions.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 19/04/2016 17:04

That is a possibility, especially if a bulge class has been added or other schools in the area have had very good inspection results or people decide it's too hard to get into and leave it off their list. 150 first place applications is very different to 150 2 or 3 place applications. Especially in an area where nearly everyone gets their first choice.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 19/04/2016 17:08

In that case it does sound like a mistake has been made.

Usually they offer the nearest school that still has places. You shouldn't have been offered a place over people who have it first on their list and have been allocated a 2nd or 3rd choice. You might have been allocated it over people who had it on their list but were offered a higher choice.

As far as I know.

tiggytape · 19/04/2016 17:15

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PatriciaHolm · 19/04/2016 17:15

If there are other local families who put it first on their list and didn't get it when you didn't put it at all, but got it, then yes something has gone wrong.

It's possible that there are a bunch of people who put it 2 or 3rd who didn't get it and you did, because they have been given their first choice instead which the LEA would have presumed they preferred having put it first.

But if you got a place when someone who put it first didn't, then something has almost certainly gone awry.

Everyone who expressed a preference for the school should have been placed in a list and the list ordered by criteria, with places going to the top 30/60 or whatever. Then all the lists are looked at and people given the school that they qualify for that comes highest on their preferences. Some people will qualify for more than one school in which case they will get the one they put highest in their preferences.

It's certainly possible that people who put it first choice didn't get it, but in that case there shouldn't have been any spare spaces for you!

tiggytape · 19/04/2016 17:17

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TheWildRumpyPumpus · 19/04/2016 17:28

Could the school have added a bulge class Mini?

I don't know if FAP can be applied without the parent specifically appealing for a place at a school? If that's how they did it your child would have to be the 31st in the class.

MiniMover · 19/04/2016 17:38

Ok I have just looked it all over again and I need to apologise to everyone for giving out false information (unintentionally) It would seem that we did add it at the bottom after DH said we should for fear of getting nothing. I didn't add it when I first filled in the form but DH added it before the deadline after our conversation. I spoke to the LA about half an hour ago who confirmed this is why we got the allocation. I feel such a plonker but I'm glad I checked our online application before calling. Blush
I still don't want the school though. Sad

MiniMover · 19/04/2016 17:44

Yes Tiggy. Sorry, I Xposted with you there as I didn't refresh before posting.

Does anyone know, is it possible that I could be in the opposite position to someone else? So they've put my school first and I've put their school first but we've both been given the one we didn't want. In effect, if I rejected the place, it could theoretically help free a place up at one of the schools I want as someone there would prefer mine, be offered my place then dump there's. Does that make sense?

MiniMover · 19/04/2016 17:45

Their's

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