Primary School offered, not possible, how likely would an appeal be successful.

[LeeandEmma88]

Hello all,

We have read this forum many times but our situation has led to us feeling the need to create an account for advice.

This isn't the typical "We didn't get our preferred school, but it is a good school so can I appeal" post, so please bear with me whilst we explain.

My family has lived in the area of our preferred primary school now for 10 years, with us being located here for 5. The reason we moved to the area was solely for this primary school. We have had our Son's name on the school list since 2013 when he was approximately 10 months old, he is now 3 years and 8 months old and will be starting school this September 2016.

My wife and I work full time jobs and these jobs are unfortunately located out of the area, my wife working 1 hour from home and myself working 30 minutes away.
We also have a 9 month old baby who will be starting daycare in September of this year. This leads us to a bit of an issue, in regards to dropping off children.

It would not be possible for my wife to drop off our baby at daycare, our son at school and then travel to work. she has tried to go part time and drop morning hours but to drop off both and get to work is just too much, leaving her approx an hour late each day.
It is not possible for myself to drop hours as I am a manager at work and have several employees under my sole responsibility. I have to be at work when they are so to say.

This means we need assistance, which comes from my Mother. She is retired but does not drive, she lives on the same road as us meaning both the preferred school and our house are walking distance (she actually has to pass our house to get to the school).

Now we haven't been offered a place at either of our 2 local and preferred schools, which in normal circumstances I would just put it down to over-subscription and learn to live with it. But since January 2016 when the application process was closed my Father has taken ill in health meaning he requires full care which is provided by my Mother.

My wife's employer has agreed to shorten her hours on 2 days meaning she can drop off and collect (based on the thought we would have gotten our preferred school) leaving my Mother to drop off and collect the remaining 3 days of the school week. Now my mother doesn't drive as mentioned earlier so needs a school in walking distance (she cannot leave my Father for a length of time) this leaves two schools, both which were on our application. The 1st choice is 0.3 miles and takes 6 minutes to walk, the 2nd choice we had is 0.6 miles and takes 15 minutes to walk, now the offered choice which we didn't even know existed is 1.8 miles away and takes 45 minutes to walk (these times are one-way not round trips). The choice given would take 4 hours walking time per day to drop off and collect for my Mother, this is not even a possibility due to my Father's health.

We know the preferred school has 30 placements up for grabs and half of these have been filled with siblings, this leaves around 15 places to fill with other criteria. We live 0.3 miles away and can walk to the school within 6 minutes, not many people at all live closer than us, the reason we chose this address. Where do you lot think we would stand with an appeal taking all of the above into consideration?

We would be taking all my Father's medical history to any appeal, along with work contracts to show hours etc as we really feel we should have been offered a place at one of the 2 schools. We also have to take into account though, that the local council do not know of my Father's ill health as it has all happened 'after' the application process. We honestly thought luck would be well within our side as we live so close to the school (we can just about see it from our house) but this isn't the case obviously.

Any help or advice is appreciated.

I think my best bet is to get myself added to the waiting list (do i see the LEA or school about this)? and start doing everything on the list to get my name bumped up the waiting list, get in as soon as possible.

Start as I mean to go on anyway as I would want my daughter to go there in 2019

But the school St Saviour is so close it wouldn't matter, my mother could drop off or my wife in time for breakfast club. The issue is mainly distance as the school we have been offered is the opposite direction to our workplaces. There are other schools closer but we have been offered one the opposite way and 15 minutes away, plus 5 minutes drop off time and parking.

Sorry, I thought it had passed already .

OP, you need to call the school and ask about waiting list - some automatically put you on it if they are your first choice while others you must request it. But the waiting list FOLLOWS THE ADMISSIONS CRITERIA. So if someone who is a regular church goer decides they also want to be on the waiting list, they will be ahead of you even if they live further away.

Sorry I misread what you put veryproud.

I need to speak to the LEA tomorrow and see if there are any other more local schools I am eligible for.
If a school that can only take 30 children is undersubscribed in a built up urban area that only spells one thing to me, it can't be very good.

I have no advice but plenty of sympathy. It's such a stupid system and its not suprising that people find it confusing. I feel sorry for families who aren't fluent in English. I know the information is often provided in different languages but it's still difficult.....and of course there's the poor heathens me who's options are even more limited

If your mum is a full time carer to your dad and he can't be left for long, it might be kinder to her to employ a child minder as she might have enough to cope with as it is.

But this is another added cost ontop of the already piling childcare fee's for baby, plus my wife has dropped alot of hours per week to make baby's childcare possible.

No help from the government whatsoever as we 'earn too much'
No wonder this country is screwed.

Also she was happy to walk our son to school as she walks the dog for 15 minutes at that time anyway, but she cannot do the 45 minute trip obviously.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by other schools you are eligible for. Even if your child would be no1 on any school's waiting list he won't be admitted now unless they have a space. That means your only bet is an undersubscribed school right now. Do you have a rough idea how many spaces become available in a year at the school you want? Our school (oversubscribed) has 60 places. Between reception and year 2, 1 place became available I think. Waiting list might mean waiting until year 3.

Sounds very frustrating but TBH lots of families have to juggle childcare/school runs etc, not ideal but needs must unless you can get in next year. Presumably if you delay (which may be good, my DS is August born and really struggled) you'd be spending more on daycare anyway

Sorry that you missed out on the place you wanted.

Sadly I don't think any appeal will make a difference.

The key fact for what went wrong is in your post of 23:48 Sunday But it clearly states the evidence should be provided by the church not ourselves - the fact that the admissions process requires evidence from the church does not imply that the onus is on the church to pro-actively provide that evidence without being asked to by you. The 15 families who got the available places all followed correct procedure to obtain the required evidence from the church. Many of them may well live further from the church than you because of the shape of the parish.

If you can afford to pay for an extra year of nursery care for your child then deferring to start a year late, if you can make a case for it that doesn't mention school choices and practical issues about childcare, might be best.

veryproudvolleyballmum nobody has to pretend to be more religious than they are to secure a school place. Your level of faith or religiousness are never questioned tested or measured in any way. It is only the physical location of your body that is measured in terms of whether you were in the church at specific times.

Just thinking about the transport side, is your wife taking the train to work? Could she use a cargo bike to take the children on the days she drops off?

Does your mother drive - it sounds as if that is the only way it is going to work for the other drop offs and pick ups.

I'm really sorry about your situation, sounds really tough because of just a small change in your circumstances.

Yes, there are prayers and promises when a child is baptised, made by the godparents (not necessarily the parents, though they can join in as well). No one in the Church 'tests' the level of faith behind this.

And the school admissions systems looks only to proof of baptism, not assessing the level of faith that led to it being carried out. And proof of attendance, not how well you pray.

The church won't know they need to provide proof of baptism and frequency of attendance unless you asked them to. It seems that OP did not, so the LA has not acts wrongly in placing in a lower category.

And although it's exactly not what OP wants to hear, but transport difficulties are never, ever a winning argument at an appeal. And the experts on MN recommend not mentioning it at all. Because no matter how much you want a lovely school in walking distance, not every address is going to qualify for an offer from one (assuming one exists in their neck of the woods in the first place). Lots of families have to use before/after school clubs of pay CMs to do drop offs, and that is also not a reason to appeal.

The family transport issues are not relevant as huge percentages of families have the same issues - especially juggling nursery fees and wrap round care costs. We have no family what so ever so had to pay for everything as do many. It's not good, but it's reality.
I'm shocked that the school has old info on web site / gave it out and I'd be complaining loudly about that. However our LA make it very clear that it's parents responsibility to read and digest everything in their admissions booklet. Popular faith schools have complex criteria and extra forms - but it says that when we applied.
OP- did you only put 2 preferences? Or use more?
I'd look at all other schools which would work better for you.
Don't assume your allocated school is awful - go and have a look.
Get all the info you need from LA about what category you are in also as you need to know where you are on the wait list. If you are eg. No 15 you may need a full rethink.

Around me, lots of parent have problems with drop offs and collections. They tend to advertise for help. It doesn't have to cost much.

"Now we haven't been offered a place at either of our 2 local and preferred schools, which in normal circumstances I would just put it down to over-subscription and learn to live with it"

You may have to do that anyway.

Don't take your father's medical history to the appeal with you. It's really not going to be relevant. If your DD has a diagnosis (since applications deadlines), then taking evidence of that, and the why other schools cannot meet her needs (letter from HCP or social worker needed as minimum) might start getting things moving your way, but if she doesn't have a education/health plan actually in place this might not work either. (It is all about what health support the preferred school would offer, btw, and transport to and from the school simply will not count unless it's a mobility issue and it doesn't seem to be in your case).

Would using the same child minder for school drop offs and full time care for your baby be a possibility to save costs?

The school have made a mistake by putting the wrong admissions criteria on their website and handing out the wrong info at open day. I would imagine other people will have been caught out too. Unfortunately that doesn't help you.

You can see why appeals panels can't take childcare arrangements into account as otherwise people would take advantage by getting jobs near their favourite school and use it to get in. It would be chaos.