Confessional: I've booked an 11+ tutor.

[recyclingbag]

Starting in September, DS will just be starting year 5.

I have done this purely out of panic
a) if I didn't they'd all be gone by the New Year
b) everyone else seems to have one in some ridiculous arms race
c) I never want to feel like I somehow failed my child but not giving him the support we are capable of.

I'm disappointed in myself to be honest. I always swore he'd get there on his own ability or not at all.

It's a county grammar, so takes about the top 20%

I'm only posting here because I can't tell anyone in real life.

I think if it was me I would have had a tutor for one of our dc because I think he'd be the one suitable, but we don't have grammars. The other 2 just not that academic and I think it's unfair to push them hard for them to struggle when they get there. But this isn't what the OP said and 45 min a week is hardly pushing him to scrape through.

Sorry but I find the maths challenging and I have a degree and maths O level. It's high end level 5/6. Only those confident in what they're teaching teach well imvho,many won't be.Most will need a refresh.

Cost sorry you may not have friends doing it and the books will add up if you have several areas that need addressing.

Time I'm sorry but jobs differ hugely and yours may be accommodating but many aren't. Getting home at 6.30-7 with tea to cook,other homework to do ,organising to do the next day and several children to get to bed or deal with leaves sfa time for many.Many may even do shift work.

Sorry but you're looking at this from a very educated m/ c view point.

I have read this thread with interest.

With DS1, I was just pleased that he was going to a comprehensive.

With DS2, it is totally different. With an 'academically able' child, I want him to go to a Grammar to be with his peers who will hopefully spur him on to achieve to his full potential. If he does get in, it would be a 'super-selective'.

I do think the 11 plus was detrimental to most children who were deemed to have failed, and consigned to a secondary modern. Maybe a small number of Grammars is a good compromise?

In an ideal world, the children would be selected on innate ability only, and not on any tutoring. When I mentioned the possibility of DS2 going to a 'super-selective', people who knew about these things confirmed that I would need to use tutors. I agree that they would be useful for two reasons: to check that DS2 has 'covered' the curriculum, and that he has opportunity to practice exam technique. Failure to do so would just be giving him an unfair disadvantage.

Using a paid tutor would give DS2 an arranged time that he can dedicate to study without any distractions. It will be very much his choice, but arranged in a way that makes it easier for him.

Katherine - you can do both those things (check that DS2 has 'covered' the curriculum, and that he has opportunity to practice exam technique) without needing to get a tutor to do it. I did for my dd and know others who have too.

Great Pink.We're glad for you.

You seriously need to get your head round the fact that for many it will either be hard or not possible.

CEM exam technique isn't written down in any book and how exactly do you identify gaps? It's been like getting blood out of a stone as regards finding my dd's gaps.

I have obviously thought long and hard about this (hence my OP) and I do think that for me, outsourcing it to a tutor reduces the pressure on my DS.

My DS is bright and I think he stands a good chance. We read to him every night, his vocabulary is very good and he is a logical sort who loves a puzzle.

However, if we were to sit down and prepare him it would make him feel that we were more emotionally invested in it. Although we are by no means rich he doesn't have an appreciation of money in the way that he does time. So sending him to somewhere for 45 minutes a week because I can't be bothered to do it myself is far less stressful for him than knowing that I am giving up the little free time I have to do this with him.

It compartmentalises it into one manageable section of the week without interfering with the rest of our lives. This leaves us plenty of time for reading, scrabble, cards, films and all the others things we enjoy doing as a family.

The pressure to pass knowing I have spent hours researching, learning and then even more hours coaching him would be far great in my case, than spending a few hundred pounds.

Whichever way you look at it, it's a hell of a lot of work if you DIY, if you're not a teacher and coming into it cold.

If you have more than one child (assume pink has one child), a job, other demands on your time, you will need to schedule time very carefully for research, your own learning, sourcing materials, marking, teaching.

Let's not underestimate or minimise what is required to DIY.

Rash, what I meant by my earlier comments is that kids can cover a lot of the ground needed by themselves if they are interested in doing so. When I did this, it was long time ago so tutoring was not the norm anyway. But I managed to come top in the English exam in what's arguably the top grammar in the country by reading very widely. I read loads of classic fiction, I wrote creatively for fun. No-one 'helped' me - I went to the library and got out books and read them. I wrote on scrap paper my mum tore off the backs of things she used for work. I also did books of IQ puzzles for fun. Not because I'd ever heard the terms VR or NVR or knew they featured in the 11+ or even knew I'd one day be doing the 11+, but just because I liked testing myself. I'd never done a practice paper before the actual thing (not even sure if they were available then?), but kids who wanted to now could easily find practice tests for free on the internet.

So I think a really motivated child could cover most of what they need - which after all, is the intention of the creators of the exams and the schools. They do not actually want to know if your child knows an antonym for 'dreadful'. They want to know if your child reads widely and thinks quickly.

I wouldn't have a clue how to teach DS about nets as I totally don't get them myself.

Rash - I have 3 kids actually!

LilyTucker - I could teach you very simply how to identify the gaps. Not at all difficult. Though I agree with you that it's probably the area most people find hardest to know where to start.

If there was a book, would you buy it?

I could say something really smug and dismissive about anybody being able to debug a mainframe system dump if only they put their minds to it and do enough research. That a failure to get to grips with dump debugging is just laziness and a lack of character. I could ignore the fact that it actually takes opportunity, experience, training and a little aptitude to do it effectively...

recyclingbag - that's the best argument I've seen yet in this thread for tutoring. :)

Your ds sounds like a bright lad - he'll probably be fine. And to be honest, however he does in the exam he'll probably do well at whichever school he goes to.

Reading widely is a red herring in Kent, it's not compulsory. Another MN11+ myth.

The idea that a 10 year old could find what they needed to practice - the right combination of English SPaG, VR/NVR/Spatial reasoning practice papers using the right provider, timing oneself and understanding what one needs to do to improve and learn/plug gaps is ridiculous. Maybe a kid on Child Genius, by not your normal bright 10 yo.

Rash, I think you're confusing the sample with the domain. Or in non-exam-speak, you're confusing the minutiae of a particular exam with the underlying qualities they are actually looking for. It's not as though no-one could spell correctly or use correct grammar before SPaG was introduced. All of the qualities you need to do well in the exam can be developed without actually doing intensive and highly specific practice using a particular provider etc. Of course kids can time themselves. Are you really suggesting that there are kids who are so poor they do not even have access to a single working clock or watch, in the UK?

But I think you're getting too hung up on the 'tutoring yourself' thing. I wasn't suggesting it as the norm, I was saying that in extremis even that could be possible.

And no, child genius status is not required. I'm nowhere near child genius status and never was. This idea that kids have to be some kind of genius to do well in the 11+ is another tiresome myth.

I think you are being very sensible, recycling.

All the DC really do need some sort of preparation, and in your family's case, outsourcing the prep to a tutor is the most efficient thing to do.

Just make sure you are happy with the tutor. Do not hesitate to end the relationship if it's not working.

After realising that the DIY route was hubris in our case and wasn't going to work, we had 4 different tutors! We had to kiss a lot of frogs, but the fourth really was worth her weight in gold. The first was the wrong "style." The second was incompetent and couldn't actually complete the maths and didn't prepare! The third was a teenager, very sweet, but just a stop gap. The fourth was a very intelligent, experienced, qualified secondary teacher who clicked with our DD. It's true that tutoring is totally unregulated. So buyer beware! A tutor takes the pressure off you as a parent some, but you still have to be engaged and aware of what is going on. I'm sure you will be recycling.. Good luck to your DS!

pink woohoo for you. I'd read most of the entire local adult library section by y8, mopped up a*s and a levels at a failing comprehensive and worked through the mechanics and pure modules of a level maths for fun before sitting my GCSEs. And my dds got a combination of scholarship and bursary for a ss independent with nothing but a nvr/ vr pack and one practice. But apart from getting self congratulatory kicks from sharing boasting rights, it's irrelevant. Because not everyone is the same. It's all very well me smugly saying dd didn't need help, but I'm honest enough to say if she was still bright, but less so than she is, I'd be in there with the prep if we had a state grammar.
On the doing it yourself/ getting a tutor. I could do the maths ability wise, but if she wasn't the way she is, and I hadn't spent since she could talk in sentences answering questions on the subject I wouldn't be up to teaching it.
English wise, firstly except basically correct, I haven't got a clue what they look for, and she'd call me out as a hypocrite because she knows it's rare I bother to make the effort to write in anything like a correct way, as I'm sure my posts testify.
However I don't think my self everybody so I'm not going to criticise people for doing exactly what I would if the roles were reversed.

Lurked - I'm not sure you make your point terribly well by pointing out that your dd got a "combination of scholarship and bursary for a ss independent with nothing but a nvr/ vr pack and one practice."

That's exactly what I'm saying. This kind of thing happens.

Unlike you, I'm not arrogant enough to think I'm anything special. If I can do it, then I know others can too. That's exactly my point. Yes, not everyone has the knowledge to do it, but then nor did I when I started tutoring my dd. But the knowledge was all easily available, for free, in the public domain. I think people should stop trying to pretend things are soooo difficult when they're not really.

It's like - I'm rubbish with computers, to use Persicacia's metaphor from before. And I'm fine with that. But I don't wonder round going 'Oh, computers are sooo hard. I can't do them so no-one can do them!' I just assume that if I actually cared, I could probably get my head round it. My kids manage to, so I could.

People should really stop exaggerating the difficulty of things they claim to know nothing about!

Funny that only now you concede to agree with the op now pink , because I'm sure most people are tutoring for similar reasons.

People far higher up the post were very clearly saying this was just about outsourcing something they would rather not spend their own time doing, similar to cleaning.

I said it earlier and will say again that tutoring really can't inflate a mark that significantly, it's really just about building confidence and preparation. Yes, tutoring is an expensive way of doing that, but really is not a way of "paying into a state school" or providing a major advantage for those who can afford it over those who can't.

It does prove my point pink. Immodest and unpopular that it is to admit, she's far enough up ability wise, although far from sheldon cooper, that it was ok for her. And being ahead on the curriculum there weren't any problems with it not being covered in time at her school. Another major consideration is that maths is something that is easier to progress in as an individual, if her talent was English it's unlikely a state primary could have offered the same level of teaching to an individual. And being good at maths generally fits in better with picking up nvr/vr, so a child that is her equal in English or her better, might still need practice with the vr/nvr. I don't think any parent is actually preparing for it despite being confident their child will ace it.
Choosing not to prepare means either you know your child will manage, or you're overly confident in their ability or you lack the knowledge to realise they won't have a fair chance against all the other tutored, well prepared and private school children. Choosing not to prepare yourself doesn't mean nobody else could or should need to.

At the end of the day it's up to the parents.Parents and kids differ. If an outsourced tutor works better for a family instead of an in house tutor all power to them. Given that the outsourced tutor is pointless and of no benefit I still don't get Pink's problem with that.

Indeed Lily. Shame that a thread looking for support has been turned into a soapbox for one person's views that are clearly out of synch with the majority.

I'm home tutoring my DD. I have spent a lot of money on books, though you could probably source things for free on the internet (I'd already bought the books by the time I noticed someone say that, and bought some that weren't the right ones to get, too). I'm enjoying it as I'm learning alongside DD, and I do feel a bit proud at how much my maths and spatial awareness skills have improved! The big advantage is that you can do as little or much as you like, in any week, whenever it fits in with time or mood. It's totally flexible. If you use a tutor, you won't have the incentive to learn the stuff yourself, and won't be able to help your DC very effectively in between them seeing the tutor.

It is not always about parents don't want to learn or do the practice papers with their own dcs. It is about the relationship between parents and their dcs. Not all parents and their dcs have the right personalities that allow them to work well together.

Thanks Rash. I have to say this thread has made me feel more confidant that we are doing the right thing.

The fact that no one has said 'yeah they just went in cold and were fine' is revealing.

Thank you everybody for your views. I really feel like we have a lot of options, which is always a good place to be

I went in cold to my 11+ many years ago. I passed but it was the weirdest exam ever and I could so easily have been thrown by the 'dog is to cat as .. type questions. I still have very vivid memories of the confusion. I also think, bizzarely with the push towwards untutorable exams, preparation is more important. The exams are shorter here so tips like moving on if you are stuck, eliminating unlikely answers etc are more important than in my day when I had a few minutes to reflect on the absurdity of the questions.