Confessional: I've booked an 11+ tutor.

[recyclingbag]

Starting in September, DS will just be starting year 5.

I have done this purely out of panic
a) if I didn't they'd all be gone by the New Year
b) everyone else seems to have one in some ridiculous arms race
c) I never want to feel like I somehow failed my child but not giving him the support we are capable of.

I'm disappointed in myself to be honest. I always swore he'd get there on his own ability or not at all.

It's a county grammar, so takes about the top 20%

I'm only posting here because I can't tell anyone in real life.

We didn't get a tutor for my DD as we felt that keeping her hobbies going was just as important. (We would have had to cancel one to fit a tutor in) I added an extra 10 minutes study every evening onto her usual homework and over the week this added up to the same time a tutor would spend with a student every week anyway.

Yes she passed the exam but we decided that we would apply to the local outstanding high school instead as this would mean life would be so much easier with several different school runs and getting to various locations for hobbies etc

You can do it yourself successfully but sometimes a tutor is a better option. It depends how organised you are really.

The flowery language isn't for the comprehension part. On the 11+ in our area they have a massive part on synonyms and antonyms. I got last year's paper from the organisation that run our 11+ and half the words in that section I struggled with

Oh I see what you mean. I was thinking flowery, descriptive, old stylee. Like Wind in the Willows etc, for comprehension.

We I guess are "lucky" in that respect, our English paper is comprehension and SPaG only. But then we aren't lucky in other ways as we have spatial reasoning which is an utter bastard. [twitch]

I'm bemused by those parents who think that tutoring is the only answer because their dcs would never sit down with them and do an hour's practice. That begs two questions - who is the application to the grammar for? (My v stroppy dc was happy to do practice papers etc with me as SHE had decided she wanted to put the grammar as her first choice - I wasn't trying to 'make' her do something against her will, I was just helping her achieve a goal she'd set. If she decided not to work for her goal, then she'd be less likely to achieve it, but that would be her choice.)

Secondly, if your dc can't bear sitting down with you to do an hour's academic work over a week, and have a meltdown if it is suggested, how do these parents think their dc are going to cope in an academic school with regular homework? Are these parent planning to get tutors in to help their dcs with all homework at secondary school too? If kids hate doing studying at home without tutors to explain stuff, maybe a grammar is not for them?

Two lessons -

1. The parent shouldn't be forcing a child to prepare against their will - the dcs should get a say in their school and then the motivation is theirs.
2. Grammar schools aren't intrinsically 'better' for all kids, they're better for academic kids who want that focus. If your kids hate academia, it's probably the wrong school for them!!!

Pinkelephant, I think you slightly misunderstand the problem and are lucky to have a child you work well with.

DS is actually fine with independent work, just me helping him that's the problem. It's not that he doesn't want to do it - just not with me

Much like parents who hire a driving instructor to teach their teenagers because they won't listen to them and results in warfare. It does not mean they have no interest in learning to drive!

pink elephant - what a patronising post

I don't have a bovine child that eats encyclopaedias for breakfast. I have an incredibly driven, competitive, challenging child who behaves very well for anyone that isn't me.

He will do fantastically well at the superselective he's going to, because he will be able to do the work under his own steam. He won't need my input. And he wants to do it, for himself, not for me.

I take it you don't live in a grammar area, from your last "lesson"

Well, my dd doesn't like working with me either. :(

But when it came to 11+, she was happy to do it - because it was in her own interests. I wasn't forcing her - if she slacked or messed around, I could just remind her it was to help her, not for my benefit. Maybe it helped that I really wasn't bothered - I would have been just as happy with the comp, but dd had chosen the grammar as her first choice.

Also, if you're doing it at home, it's not a big deal if they don't want to do a full hour or don't want to fit it in at that moment. You can do it when your dc is free and in the mood - no need to force them when they're tired or have loads of homework etc.

It really did help me bond with my dd.

Obviously, now she's a terrible teen, obviously she hates me again - but I think that happens even if you send your dcs to comps!!

pinkelephant have you ever tried to teach a friend or relation to drive? Or teach an elderly relative to use a computer? It isn't always a happy or productive combination - which is why so many people use driving instructors and why I volunteer at our community centre to teach other people's elderly relatives how to use technology.

pink I think you might be conflating emotional maturity with academic ability. Where I live, the vast majority of children in selective schools were tutored. At the same, the vast majority of children in those selective schools are doing just fine.

Pink elephant - Just because your DD doesn't like doing it with you and you did it, so what? I paid for a tutor because I didn't want the grief. So shoot me

It's very wrong to criticise others parenting choices just beacuse they aren't what you did.

We don't have comps her as we are in a grammar area. Our choice if he didn't pass is a secondary modern. Which is very different.

OP - it does just make me SO ANGRY all the bullshit that well-meaning parents write about the 11+. I hate the arms-race, the backstabbing, the reduction of everything to paid service = better. It really isn't.

It annoys me so much that parents romanticise the figure of a tutor like this. Tutors aren't 'special' - few are qualified teachers and a very high proportion who claim to coach for specific exams know barely anything about them. I spend my time picking up lies about the 11+ on facebook - like the tutor who claimed to be offering a mock exam for the local grammar using 'genuine' CEM papers. I queried this and said I assumed she meant 'CEM-STYLE'. No, she came back, the real thing! How interesting, I replied - I'd coincidentally been on CEM training just that week, and the exams they produce are piloted and pre-tested on thousands of children and cost an absolute fortune to produce. How curious that they were allowing a small-scale local tutor to use them. How much had she paid for them, or where had she got hold of them, precisely, as I was sure CEM would be very interested to know! (Her advert disappeared from facebook almost immediately, for some reason...)

Grrr.

Preparing children for the 11+ is so straightforward and so very much NOT 'magic'. There is NOTHING that a tutor does that any parent couldn't do. Like the parent above who thought they'd got good value for money employing a tutor to get their dc to sit practice papers each week! Bet that was one happy tutor! Given that you can buy a book of say 6 practice tests for a tenner (and reuse them ad infintum), so ought to cost less than £2 a week - but tutor paid £30 a week!! Child learns almost nothing, as the tutor hasn't actually taught the child anything!!! but the parent can write smugly on here about how they've 'done the best by their child', and 'everyone else is doing it', so it must be right.

Honestly, you can achieve much more with your child than any tutor can. I speak as someone has worked as a tutor, by the way. There really are no 'secrets' that only tutors know. Everything you could need to know or use is out there, in the public domain. People take advantage of the gullible, credulous nature of worried parents. It's a scam. Nothing more.

RashDecision - I criticise because I very firmly believe that the purpose of grammar schools is - as it was when I went to one 30 odd years ago - to educate those children that will most benefit from an academic education. I wish we had more grammars, that is true, as I think there are more children who would benefit from this than there are places at grammars. But I certainly don't think that grammar schools are 'better' or have 'better teaching' or any such nonsense. Only someone who had never been to a grammar school could imagine that. They get better results on average because they have brighter kids to begin with - but if by some miracle you manage to squeeze a not-very bright kid into a grammar, they're not going to magically perform better; in fact research suggests they'll probably perform worse. I would not have wanted to be one of the kids at the bottom of every class at a selective school - far more demoralising than being in a middle set at a comp. I strongly suspect that the teaching quality is actually far higher at the secondary moderns you despise - it has to be.

I also criticise because, fundamentally, what this is about is buying (or trying to buy) your way into a school. And as grammars are funded by the state, I think the education they provide should be open to all children, independent of wealth. Decisions should be made on merit alone, Tutoring is an attempt to use wealth to get something you shouldn't be able to buy.

As I've argued above, I don't think it's always a terribly successful attempt - in large part because of the really low quality of many of those who claim to be 'specialists'. But unfortunately, it leads many parents who really can't easily afford it to follow the herd, because they are convinced by threads like this that their child will 'miss out' if they don't. I think that's dreadful.

Pink - do you live in a grammar area?

No one on this thread that I've noticed thinks that tutors are magic and can do things that involved smart parents with time can't.

I choose to pay because I can and it makes my life easier. It's also why I have a cleaner.

I know plenty of people that have DIYD their kids into grammars, as well as SSs. They also happen to have time, patience, obedient children and either inside knowledge, like pink herself, or have done hours and hours of research so they know what they need to be doing.

Great, you knock yourself out doing that if you want to. Of course you don't need to flash cash at a tutor, it's perfectly possible to DIY. It's very judgemental to cricticise others that do differently to you though.

As we speak, there's a tutor at my kitchen table with DD, doing some Maths. She screams the place down with me, they are laughing away.

Priceless IMO.

Unless you think it would damage or overly stress your son I don't see the problem.
Even if he doesn't pass the language and problem solving will be useful.
Unfortunately from my limited experience of participating in interviews, things like confidence, and how you behave and speak are regarded almost as much, if not more than some qualifications. Certainly for roles where a degree is important but where it doesn't matter which one.

Pink - I don't despise secondary moderns at all, far from it. Don't put words in my mouth. My DD will probably attend one, as it is the right sort of school for her. It would have been totally wrong for my DS.

It would probably need to be a miracle to squeeze a not very bright kid into a grammar round here. I don't know of any kids that weren't expected to pass the last three years that have. Plenty that should've passed that didn't.

Do you have any recent experience of being in a grammar area?

Pink, this is where I take issue with you.

You are a tutor. You have been on CEM training courses. Do you not think you might have skills and attributes that other parents might not have or want?

I get very cross with friends who are qualified teachers who say 'oh you shouldn't pay, just do it yourself'. That's not really how the world works is it. I could paint my own house, learn how to fit a kitchen or prune a tree or any of the other things I pay others to do.

And if tutors really are a waste of money, and no better than parental input, then nobody really is paying their way into grammar are they

I don't have any 'inside knowledge' - Rash - a. I teach a completely different subject and age group in real life, and b. there IS NO SUCH THING!!!

Your post is just another tired re-hash of the tutor 'magic' thing that I've already pointed out is complete rubbish.

I have no objections if you wish to pay for a private school, or a private cleaner. I do object if rich people try to monopolise places at STATE schools that are intended for all kids. In the same way as I would not be happy if the NHS started charging fees and you could buy yourself an appointment and thus deny other poor people the chance of an appointment. I think that would be wrong. It's no different to giving the headteacher a large brown envelope to accept your child. It's an attempt to fix things using cash.

If rich people want to pay for their own separate institutions, that's their business. If they want priority treatment at something funded by all taxpayers, which includes me, then I reserve the right to pass judgement on those actions.

Exam practice isn't just sitting papers and marking them

It's teaching exam technique as well as gap filling with some knowledge. Ive tried many times to tutor my dc and they just get frustrated and don't listen to me. Having a third party makes a big difference.

Just ignoring questions asked and ranting on about the same old shit is boring.

I actually agree that grammars should be for state primary educated children like mine. It would be great if the entrance tests were tutor proof. But they're not, and some people choose to outsource it. It's perfectly possible to do it yourself, we all know that.

Your situation is not the same as mine. You are a. An experienced teacher and b. Don't live in an area where a seconadry modern is the alternative.

Start listening to other people's situations and how they might vary from your own and you may learn something.

Blimey Pink you talk tosh.

All this buying places,you contradict yourself.If tutors are so shite what advantage exactly are parents buying and why is it ok for the educated parents with oodles of time to tutor their DC but for others to outsource it's a heinous crime?

Tutors differ. Ours is fantastic,a former teacher like me who has made the 11+ fun and given my DC confidence. Yeah I hold my hands up I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than do it myself.< shrugs>

Oh and I'd just like to point out that primary schools differ,ours had nowhere near covered the curriculum before the exam. My DC are also like all the others who got in from their school bright top setters perfectly capable and suitable for grammar school.

Monopolising my arse. Parents that read to their kids from birth providing a rich vocabulary alongside a primary school with robust quality maths teaching are then monopolising too as it's widely known how high vocabulary and maths play a huge part in the CEM.Those kids with weaker vocabularies from the weaker primaries are indeed disadvantaged but I guess that is ok.

And the idea that only the rich can afford tutors is bullshit. How much is a packet of fags now? £9.

How much is a tutor once a week? £30

Or 3 packets of fags.

It's about priorities. Sure, some can't afford the fags. But lots can.