Confessional: I've booked an 11+ tutor.

[recyclingbag]

Starting in September, DS will just be starting year 5.

I have done this purely out of panic
a) if I didn't they'd all be gone by the New Year
b) everyone else seems to have one in some ridiculous arms race
c) I never want to feel like I somehow failed my child but not giving him the support we are capable of.

I'm disappointed in myself to be honest. I always swore he'd get there on his own ability or not at all.

It's a county grammar, so takes about the top 20%

I'm only posting here because I can't tell anyone in real life.

DS1 found tutoring really stressful ( the tutor was a bit of a bullying arsehole) so I pulled him out and gave him test papers/books to do at home yourself. The tutor was patronising and lacked tolerance.

In the end we moved house and was lucky enough to be in the catchment for one of the top state secondaries in the country.

He is now on a sports scholarship at an Independent School so his education has worked out well- but im glad we pulled the tutoring as it was making him miserable.

Only in England is it seen as "cheating" to prepare for an exam - buzzard. IMO (and I work in the field) potential IQ will only be realised if the brain is trained.....unfortunately this does not happen for the most able in state primary in years 4-6. Not the teachers fault classes at my dcs school are 32-35, so as long as they are within age expected limits they are left alone. To get into a superselective their brain needs to be sharp and they need to praise to time. If you have the skills, inclination and time you can do it yourself otherwise for goodness sake outsource it.

I know what you mean.

So many people I know have chosen private prep so they don't have to pay for private secondary. We can't afford either.

Lots of my friends are against tutoring but are teachers themselves so just do it themselves.

I've heard many people say "we didn't bother with a tutor ........ But we did do past papers for an hour a day over the summer.

We buy all sorts of privileges for our children - museum trips, theatre trips, books, games etc.

This is just one I've always been conflicted about. Am feeling much happier now it's done though.

I agree with the silk purse/pigs ear analogy

My dd and her friend at primary were tutored together. Dd went to grammar and is expecting A and B gcse results, her friend didn't and is hoping for C's
They both had gaps in their learning (school burned down and long story but massive trauma ) - but her friend just isn't as able
they both benefitted from it and got confidence back and have made the most of it.
Of the friends that went to grammar, all were tutored in some way, but they all self supported once there

Phew, I was a bit worried it might be offensive and I didn't mean it that way.

I have a DD that isn't in the top 20% and not sure I'd like her compared to a sows ear but I didn't mean it like that. I should've put the disclaimer in that not all children are academic and that is fine, they will have other skills and talents that will serve them well in life.

A grammar wouldnt be the right environment for her, she'd hate it.

Rash I know what you mean.

We've thought about it a lot as for w while we didn't think he would suit it. He's always worked above expected levels but generally can't be arsed.

However he's worked really hard this year and his attitude has changed. I now feel it's our responsibility to nurture that a little more.

There are other friends being tutored who have never even been in the top half of the stream, never mind the top table and I'm not sure I would do that.

Cancel it. If he doesn't get in anyway it's a colossal waste of money. If he only gets in because he was tutored to within an inch of his life for 2 years you're setting him up to fail and if he would've got in without tutoring you're back to the colossal waste of money.

rubbish
every child who gets in will have been tutored - you're only giving him an even chance with everyone else

Pink I also disagree with lots of your reasons for not tutoring. As the OP says, it is really down to the child - but also the parent and the tutor. I really do think you can't generalise about whether you need a tutor - it does depend on the individual circumstances. I'm not saying you can't do well in the exams without a tutor, of course you can, but it really depends on the child and how you as a family can dedicate the time to do it.

My child absolutely loves the tutor, looks forward to going, it is fun but also we said from the outset that the 1 hour he has is something that can never be moved. My child's issue is focus and concentration, so knowing that he has an hour of dedicated time, where he is away from any other distractions (with the best will in the world it is very hard to do at home) at the tutors house is great. He knows it is once a week and really knuckles down for that time. Works so much better than doing something in a quick 5 mins here or there at home with me in between cleaning teeth or cooking dinner - that just would not have helped him.

We also think very differently. I have lost my temper with him more than once when trying to do tutor homework with him - he knows which buttons to press to wind me up and in all honesty, I'm probably not as patient as the tutor. Its also difficult the separate the normal parent / child relationship (e.g. he might still be cheesed off with me because I've asked him to clean his room, or not allowed him a biscuit or whatever) so he might not work as hard for me as he would for someone completely unconnected. If I'd have tried to do all of the preparation with him it would definitely have impacted negatively on our relationship.

And whilst the tutor is obviously designed to prepare them to get through the entrance exams, there is "teaching" to be done. Certainly where we are, the maths paper includes a lot of the Year 6 syllabus, even though they take it the exams the start of Year 6 and therefore won't necessarily have covered it. I could of course have done it, and taught him how I was taught it 30+ years ago, but teaching methods have changed and I didn't want to teach him methods or processes which will be different to how he'll be taught in school. The tutor is a teacher (different school) and therefore up to date with the syllabus and teaching methods. Nothing he has done with the tutor is contrary to what he'll be taught at school so there will no confusion later down the line.

The tutor also knows short-cuts, fun ways of remembering how to work it out, ways to save time (which is also my DS' downfall). It has been the right decision for us.

It's possible to do it yourself, if the money is an issue. We're doing it that way.

I agree that all children and parents are different and should do what they think is best without judgement from others. After all, ultimately all education is good for everyone, perhaps not benefiting all in equal measure.

However, I can see how there might be a risk of taking a student that has a certain ability and trying to push them beyond that level resulting in either:

a) failing at entrance exams and then feeling worse for it

b) passing entrance exams but struggling to keep up for the next 5-7 years.

Given the lengths that some seem to go to (rather than admit it's not necessarily in the best interests of the child) I would guess that both (a) and (b) happen too often. However, that's all speculation on my part. I stand by the parent knows best for their child point.

I suspect there is a lot more 'a' than 'b'.

We recently attended an open day for one of the top grammars. The head told everyone that he had been at that grammar for many many years and that there was categorically no benefit in having a child tutored - it made no difference to the outcome. I find that hard to believe, but there you are.

Every selective school we went to visit had an authority figure tell us that. Then parents ignore it. It's a prisoners dilemma. You need to prepare if the others are because there isn't a pass mark, it is more of a "knock out tournament." Spaces are limited. The more people prepare their children, the more you have to prepare yours.

The extra few points your child scores may not be statistically meaningful, but they may be the marginal few points that your child needs to get one of the final remaining places. So it would be true to say that tutoring makes no meaningful difference to your child's performance, but it would also be true to say that a few "un-meaningful" points might be the difference between an offer or not because they have to draw the line somewhere as spaces are constrained.

Individual families have the least power/control in this situation. Schools are in a better position to do something as they set the terms of engagement. Not sure what they could do though. More grammar type places is probably the answer. It always seems that there are more children that could benefit from a highly academic education than there are spaces offered which seems silly and self-defeating.

I have a very capable DS who is about to start prepping for the 11+. I've agreed with his tutor that he will do two years slow build up to it, we won't be telling him he is going to sit the exam until he has chosen a school he likes. The idea is there will be as little " pressure" on him as possible.
If he doesn't pass at least he has had some decent one to one time with a teacher, which in his class of 30 at school he rarely gets.

Interestingly my first choice of secondary school is a non-selective church school, I doubt we'll get in, but that's a whole other thread.

Op just do what you feel comfortable with. I used to live in grammar school town. I knew even professional teachers often employ tutors to prepare their own children for 11+. Unless your children would willingly accept to do extra work with you plus you have the time, space and patience otherwise you have to find alternative way to support them. A large majority of children got in grammar schools had been coached by someone and they do okay. Only you know yourself and your children best. Just that there s no guarantee whether your dc will get a place no matter what you do. I knew a child who had been coached by his grandparent (an ex-HT) for years but still he didn't pass the test.

I may be wrong but I think that in Germany children get into their equivalent of grammar school (of which there are lots, as not largely abolished as here) by teacher recommendation rather than exam. Parents seem to be genuinely much more laid back about it there, with the more practical schools being seen as a good option too.

Tram the vocational education and training in Germany is excellent, it's not seen as the second choice compared to an academic route. I wish we had the same.

I've got DD down to start tutoring in Sept at start of year 4 for maths. Seems she is behind in Maths on her end of year 3 report. Below Expected Age Attainment Range.

But hang on a minute... School have issued Doodle maths App. She is 6 months older than her actual age on that.

So do I really want to rely on the opinion of the teachers? Not a chance. Off to a tutor for maths she goes. Her reading and writing is above average so I will keep stretching her at home for that myself and add in some familiarisation with her tutor closer to the test.

We are 20% area but the % of state school entrants is tiny compared to private prep.

My dd goes to grammar school. She had 4 1 hour sessions with a tutor. We bought the books of practice papers and she did them over the summer hols. She got a very high pass mark is in top set for everything and on the gifted and talented list. My friends dd was tutored twice a week for over a year. She scraped in, is in bottom set for everything has to attend every extra support class, maths club, English club etc and her parents have to help her with her homework every night. All that being said sure she will do much better in her GCSEs then if she had gone to local comp. all children in catchment for the grammar where my dd goes are tutored in primary at school for the 11+ so think it makes sense to get some practice in.

The grammar schools would presumably get brighter children if no-one was prepared for the test, beyond familiarisation by looking at a few papers (which they did recommend). That way, the brighter children would get in, whereas now some of the bright children will not get in, because they are unprepared and less bright children are prepared. I met a working class mum at open day who assumed that her DC would get in without any preparation whatever because they were doing well at school. Those are the children who lose out, which is a pity.

Be it a tutor or yourself, preparing your DC for an exam is necessary. I don?t agree some people think that children with tutoring will struggle at grammar school. You can?t tutor an average intelligence child to get into a super selective grammar school. What can tutoring do? It can only help DC find out their knowledge gap then fill it, help DC to work out questions a bit faster so will always finish the exam in time and to gain some exam skills( like not miss out questions, checking etc) . For the same intelligence children, the one worked hard will get a better result than the one who didn?t. So DC will also learn hard work is rewarding.
Tutoring is easy, any parents with time can do it. We decide to send DS1 to independent school only in later year 5. So we had 8 months to do it. DS had always been top of his class in math and English.I bought some bond papers to have a test first to see what DS1?s scoring. He generally scored over 90%. Then we went over the questions he had problems. He spends around 40 minutes per day to do this extra exercise. After some practice, he get nearly 100% right most of the time. We started to do timed practice, so he knew how to allocate time and how to check all the answers. Then I learnt that I can find all sorts of grammar school and independent school sample papers. I printed out some sample papers, these papers were harder than Bond papers. There were always some hard questions in each paper. DS1?s scoring is not so good now, it varied a lot. But then you always gained something if you made mistake. We stopped practicing a month before the exam. It was time to relax and also there were not much to learn as he always got nearly full marks.
Eventually DS1 got scholarship for the school, and we were told he nearly got full mark for the entrance tests.
I think we actually have gained lots of reward from this period of preparation. DS had a very happy and relaxed primary school life with little homework. He didn?t put much effort in his study. So this was a chance to let him realise what you can achieve through hard work. He had formed a very good study habit which is good for his secondary school. At secondary school, He always finish homework every day, do the revision before the exam.

I moved out of the grammar school town because I have two summer children and I really don't want to have to face the dilemma of 11+ or not 11+. I rather spend the extra time, money and energy on ex-curriculums. The main problem is that the comprehensive schools are really not up to standard in the grammar school area we lived and this isn't uncommon.

I am a Guide leader and we have an event coming up which is just before the local 11+ exam. Another leader alerted me to the fact and I have about 5 girls who are in that age group. I asked them all if they were doing the exam to gauge how many would be unavailable; out of the 5 all said "no" or "don't know what that is". Parents later told me that two of the ones who said "don't know what that is" ARE doing the exam.

I mentioned it in the form of "exam for X school" and in fact one girl who isn't doing it, said "A is doing it" (A said "what's that?"). So either they have not been told that they are doing it (so aren't getting tutoring OR are being told the tutoring is for something else) or they have not been told the exam is anything to do with "very well known school X" that older Guides go to/talk about and that they have definitely heard of.

I mentioned it a month ago and the exam is in September so it's not like I'm mentioning it to year 3 who are doing the exam in year 5! So I'm a bit bemused why these two girls don't know they are doing the exam.

So I'm a bit bemused why these two girls don't know they are doing the exam

I'm planning on doing something similar, the girls won't have any pressure on them they have been preparing without worrying about it and hopefully it will be an experience they enjoy.