MNHQ here: 'school gate' fines for being late to school - what do you think?

[RowanMumsnet]

Morning all

We're being asked for your views on a couple of press stories over recent days (here and here - ££) indicating that some schools are going to start fining the parents of children who are late to school more than ten times a term. The fines will be £60, doubling if they're not paid within 21 days, and ultimately (as with unauthorised term-time absences) parents could be prosecuted and even jailed for non-payment.

What do you think? Does your school already do this? Is it a constructively tough approach to persistent lateness, or a wild overreaction - or something else?

Would be great to hear what you think.

Thanks
MNHQ

I think if you reread my post, I've said I know how disruptive it is for the school and that I have spent 2 years trying solutions.

She's had no pocket money for over a year, she's been grounded, she's lost internet and phone privileges, we tried getting her to earn them back by being on time for just one week...nothing has worked. We've tried straight out bribing her.

She's up in plenty of time, I've tried earlier and earlier (though why an hour and a half isn't long enough to start with, I don't know) it made no difference.

I can't pick her up and carry her, she's 5 ft 8. Like I said, I or her dad could possibly drag her out, but we have given that a bit of a try and she responded with violent opposition.

What do you suggest? I'd love a solution, I really would.

no you cannot drag her there tabulah, most counter productive.
I am just ticking off the days til half term and the end of exams after that.
She already missed her Welsh GCSE but that is not the end of the world let's face it.
One of the reasons she doesnt want to go is because of the teachers and their attitudes to pupils.....

Duncan - it's rubbish, isn't it?

Weirdly my DD is doing well and wants to do well in her exams, though they're next year... But she takes that as proof that being late doesn't matter.

MrsUltracrepidarian to tabulahrasa

"You are the parent - you are responsible for her - you need to seek solutions - not just give up and let her ruin her own, and more importantly others' lives."

Go on then smartarse, what do you suggest?

Who wants to know our views MNHQ?

well I am sure she will do well tabulah.....
this will pass soon.

"well I am sure she will do well tabulah.....
this will pass soon."

I hope so, lol.

A few years ago I would have judged anyone saying they can't get one teenage girl to school on time to be fair.

Puberty has not been kind though and it's been a really rough few years, she was a lovely child and I think hopefully that she's starting to settle down into what will be a well balanced adult. But this bit has been like a complete roller coaster and getting her to school has been the one battle I've just completely failed at.

Hi everyone - BBC local radio are looking for your views on this issue.

I think it boils down to common sense from someone (not necessarily the school and certainly not the receptionist) to make the decision as to why the child is late.

Common sense not to fine the person travelling on public transport whose arrival time is erratic.
Not to fine the family travelling several miles past four schools they would much rather have a place at (so the category above)
Not to fine those who cannot get their children in to the same school for whatever reason who have to do two drop offs.
Not to fine the family with SN or disabilities which causes their arrival time to be erratic

Simply fine the persistent offenders who have no rhyme no reason for their lateness and the differentiating factor being the persistent. Not the erratic.

Because those erratic types would take that well wouldn't they? Other people being late but not being fined. Usually those erratic types have other issues going on too and probably don't have £60 to pay a fine. Who decides anyway? The Receptionist? That's a lot of power for one member of staff. They'd have to employ someone specifically to do it, investigate etc. It's unworkable unless everyone is slammed, except perhaps those with a formal medical diagnosis.

yes just fining the 'erratic' people would probably end up being class based and at the mercy of one person who might have attitudes as displayed by the teacher on this thread.

Sorry I meant the persistent types, who may have erratic lifestyles leading to regular lateness.

What a terrifying thought Duncan.

But as someone up thread said, the legal ability to fine already exists.

So as with most things, I think this has been blown out of all proportion by the media. Mind you, sweeping statements from the government never go down well.

Should they fine by stealth or make a big news story and hope the persistent offenders listen up and buck up?

And I'm thinking along the lines of fining for holiday absence. That has crept in, steadily increased and I don't have any stats to hand but probably improved attendance by a smidgen.

As previously stated up thread there are no fines in Scotland but attendance figures are exactly the same as UK.

I agree with the view that it legitimises lateness, and those that can afford it will use it as a get out of jail free card.

We are late at least once a week. DS is a school refuser and we struggle every morning. This had a massive knock on effect when DD started school last year, so she has to attend breakfast club so that her attendance record is not tarnished, which is a large amount of money in itself.

exactly - taking sixty quid off a struggling family is not going to be all that productive is it? That is a week's food for some families.

Riddiculous idea.

We are generally on time, well my younger ones are. Ds2 (12) has asc so getting him out of the house in the mornings can be a pita, the buses are also unreliable but it's six miles to his high school and that is the only transport available.

Funny how my asc child is effectively excluded at the moment as the school doesn't have the correct plans in place to support him correctly and they are getting away with marking him as 'ill 'yet if I took him out of school I would get a fine. Thete are loads of families up and down the country whose children with special needs are being denied a full time education the government don't give a shit about these kids but are happy to fine other parents for spurious reasons. Makes me sick.

Smashing idea how to destroy the parent-school relationship.

Is it an intentional programme to divest the school of feckless parents?

So sad you're not my child's teacher, MrsU. You sound, er, lovely

DS2(9) manages to be late at least once a week. Mostly, it's because he's filled his nappy just as we need to be leaving, despite having been up since 5am. He didn't get in until 10am, last Tuesday, because DS1 didn't have to start until 10:30, so he wouldn't leave the house until DS1's taxi had been. Then there's the mornings when he's been running around starkers at 8:40. "Hello, this is Mrs Yve. I'm afraid DS2's going to be late this morning because he refuses to get dressed. Actually, he was dressed 5 minutes ago, but most definitely isn't, now."

Anybody else waiting for mrsultra to give us her wisdom on how you get a child/teen out the door so they are at school on time. Without resorting to physically manhandling them, not that I would be able to do that even if I wanted to.

I wonder when I had pnp after Ds4 social services provided taxis to get my kids to school,they were often late or didn't turn up at all. Who would be fined in that instance, me the taxi company or children's services...

Ds1 is only ever late due to bus problems, ds3 and Ds4 are never late, I cycle the the two miles to school every morning with dd. But sadly I have no magic powers to make ds2 get ready or to make him get on the bus if he refuses.

We arrive for the 9am bell each morning
I am unwell and am most troubled by my illness in the morning
When I have a good day we are early...this morning fer instance...but mostly we are just there and no more

I would find it hard to accept the fine but it wouldn't change the situation I'm in.