MNHQ here: 'school gate' fines for being late to school - what do you think?

[RowanMumsnet]

Morning all

We're being asked for your views on a couple of press stories over recent days (here and here - ££) indicating that some schools are going to start fining the parents of children who are late to school more than ten times a term. The fines will be £60, doubling if they're not paid within 21 days, and ultimately (as with unauthorised term-time absences) parents could be prosecuted and even jailed for non-payment.

What do you think? Does your school already do this? Is it a constructively tough approach to persistent lateness, or a wild overreaction - or something else?

Would be great to hear what you think.

Thanks
MNHQ

Can I just point out that in Scotland there are no fines for family holidays ? Of course, persistent unexplained absence is followed up through the usual chanels.

And guess what ? Attendance rates and educational attainment are similar to england

So I conclude that fines make no difference to the above . While costing a lot to administer and creating a lot of bad feeling

While I'm on the subject , our children go to school when they are 6 months older . And parents have a rightto defer entry if they feel their child isn't ready for school , if they are born in the two months befroe the cut off date.

And a right to an extra years funding for a nursery place .

And they can apply to do so if their child is born in the previous 5 months as well ( and ive ever heard of permission being refused ) .

And guess what ? The teachers prefer not having to teach a child who is too young. The parents are happy and the children do better . Win win .

We've been late once since dd began school and that's only because I arrived on the last day of term to see it was non uniform so turned dd around, took her home to get changed etc. Didn't want her to be the odd one out. The main reason we are not late is because dd has ASD and becomes massively anxious if not there on time. However it could so easily be the other way and it might be a struggle to get her in daily. I am also lucky that we live at the end of the road her school is on. So I have a few reasons why it's easy for us not to be late.

It's not as easy for everyone else so I think it's a really crap idea and will create masses of resentment. I resent just the thought of it.

Ten times is a lot over a term though. Two weeks of being late?

I think easily done if you have to travel to get to school or have a particularly oppositional child, perhaps one with undiagnosed SN, there's quite a few of them about.

Possibly.

Such a rubbish thing to do. How do they get this money off parents who can't afford it?

Take them to court and keep piling the costs on then force them to pay it off weekly. Situation normal.

^^ this

My friend used to get the bus with her 2 school age kids and baby- they ran every hour - she would be 10min early to 20 min late - or taking the earlier bus would have to wait outside with the baby for 40-70min for school to start - every school day.

She got the bus that was scheduled to give her 10min leeway - but all it takes is a bin lorry, an inconsiderate parker, heavy traffic and she is done for - though of course she will not know that until it happens - she was PLANNING on being there 10 min early.

Some people seem to have such lovely ordered lives that they cannot comprehend why other have problems being as perfect as they are.

I think it's a good idea. Unless there are any issues the school are aware of nobody should be late more than 10 times. My Dd's have done 9 years in pre-school then school and we have never been late. It might make some parents buck their ideas up a bit. People with genuine issues should be supported to help them get there on time. The ones late at our school are the ones who live closest to the school within 2 minutes walk.

Really?! This is a terrible idea. As above it will work to both increase absenteeism and lateness. The 'can't be arsed' lot will just call their dc in sick and then there will be those who will weigh up the cost of being late and then decide (much like term time holiday fines).

classic cross-post...

(meant with Butterfly - sorry Moreis)

I would be interested to hear what teachers think. They are the ones trying to start the lessons, then being interrupted after latecomers arrive, and having to catch them up with what's happening. Plus it's unsettling for the children that are already there and on time.

If fines aren't the answer what is?

Absolutely ridiculous idea. Fines penalise people in poverty and it'll cause huge amounts of stress for families who might be struggling.

Persistent latecomers need to be supported. I went through a period of being late because my son is an insomniac and when he was younger, it was terribly difficult to get him out of bed. What was the option? Get him up even earlier so that he had even less sleep? I really struggled with it and it was very stressful, I would have loved for someone to ask me, "we've noticed your lateness, how are things for you, can we help?" But apart from a few raised eyebrows from some of the parents no-one seemed to care.

He is 10 now, still an insomniac, but old enough to manage it better and knows he has to get up and on to school on time. I was really struggling financially as well at the time as a lone parent, so to be given a £60 fine when the situation was already causing both me and my son so much stress would have probably broken me.

MNHQ - it would be helpful and more transparent if you can say WHO is asking you to find out views.

Personally I'd think that it could be a useful tool for schools to have but that it would be essential that schools were able to have a large amounts of discretion. There are many reasons why children may be regularly late for school, some of which are unavoidable, some of which are not.

Behind the idea of fining, there is always someone, somewhere, thinking "hmm, this could be a nice little earner."

These powers have existed since 2003.

A late arrival is an unauthorised absence. Excessive unauthorised absences can lead to a fine (one long one or repeated short ones).

Why is this 'news'?

Pantone excellent point.

This codifies this sort of behaviour and will probably work against schools trying to improve attendance. If I am going to be marked as one strike for being ten minutes late, then I might as well be 2 hours late...

It's also just making the relationship between parents and schools more formal, rule-based and legalised, instead of encouraging proper engagement and participation.

And it's a huge amount of money.

I think it's a terrible idea (but I am always on time, as is almost everyone in DD's class, almost all of the time, so I might not really see the need.)

i have at least a 30 min walk to school ,dont drive and have to cross at least 7 roads at rush hour!at that's before the inconsiderate parkers issue,i suspect a lot of parents are in that boat.

Terrible idea. Very interesting that the poster from Scotland has posted about their attendance levels being similar to England despite the absence of fines.

I agree with others that it would be likely to negatively impact on attendance as there would be a temptation to just phone in & report the child sick rather than get 'told off' and fined.

going to be discussed on loose women

I think it would punish vulnerable children and destroy home/school relations. I think the fines for going on holiday are a bad idea too.

Parents and children should value and treasure their education, not resent it.

Honestly, if I was running that late with DD and risking a fine, I'd ring her in sick. However, as a carer of a disabled child if she was then penalised for lateness due to issues we'd had with DS then I would not be very happy.