Don't want DS to be seen as "clever"

[andnowforsomemoreofthesame]

DS1 has started Reception in September, as according to his teacher, he is the most advanced in the class in numeracy, and is in the highest group for literacy. Although I'm not too bothered about academic achieving at this age, I don't like the idea of him being in the highest group.

Even though the teachers are clearly stretching him, I would like him to be in an environment where he is closer to the average.

I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear, and I'm aware some people will just think I'm an idiot. But my point is that I hate to see people saying "clever boy" and things like that to him. I don't want him to think he is clever or better than anyone. I would like him to be in an environment where some children will be more clever than him, and where he won't be praised so much.

I'm saying that because I grew up thinking that I was clever, and it wasn't good for me. I am intelligent, but no one told me that intelligence is useless without focus, persistence, effort and a lot of other things. Today I like to be in a place where people are more capable than me, where I can learn. (and I have no proper career, which proves that being only intelligent doesn't get you very far)

I think he is fine where he is by now, but maybe in 2 or 3 years I would like to change schools. He is in a regular comprehensive primary (in London, and the range of abilities in his class is huge), and we can't afford private. I've heard I can try a grammar school when he is secondary age, or a scholarship in a private school. But is there anything I can do before that?

Any suggestions? Anyone in a similar situation? Any places I could take him after school or during holidays where he can be in contact with really clever children (because I'm perfectly aware DS is just an intelligent boy, not a genius)?

If you think I'm totally wrong, please don't flame me. Tell me WHY I'm wrong (if you CBA). I've changed my mind regarding education so many times in the last few years that, believe me, I'm open to different opinions.

Thanks!

not read thread. I am sure he is bright but I wouldn't panic just a few in DD class were way ahead at reception level but only due to preparation at home and child receptive enough early on to take it in.

DD was lower end in reception and is now doing really well a few years on and those ahead are behind her. I am sure your DS is naturally bright but I wouldnt panic too much yet.

At a parents evening my younger child was (not named!) mentioned as the best reader the teacher had seen coming into school, it was a discussion about the different starting points of the children. I felt a bit strange about it tbh as I was the clever kid who never did anything and it brought back the feeling of being a bit freaky! Fast forward to age 8 and he's reading the same book as others in his group and doesn't read a massive amount at home. However some kids in his class do say he "knows everything". I don't comment on his abilities.

And he certainly doesn't have to sweat like his sibling to get homework or projects done. He is coasting isn't he? Compared to my child who struggles with schoolwork it is not a problem in the same league now but maybe the struggling will stand that one in good stead.

I think there are some children who display early academic ability and continue to do so.

My friend's DS was absurdly advanced for his age at 4. By 7 his primary school teachers admitted that they were struggling to help him advance.

At secondary he took a place as a highly selective school and they arranged for him to spend time alongside normal lessons at university.

The other pupils did not catch up!

On the other hand, my own DS was an August birthday and prem. He went to school not able to read or write or count. He plodded along for a good few years.

Then out of the blue he suddenly began to overtake. The HT suggested we send him to a very selective school for secondary. I remember thinking he must have the wrong boy . Then he got in. And won an academic scholarship...

What this means is the best course of action for the OP, is difficult to say...

I suppose I should say what my DS experience has been thus far at a highly selective school.

Great. Just great. He's not in any way unusual. He likes that. And the school is geared to ensure he's exceptionally well challenged. I like that .

The reading thing is a bit of a red herring though. A child can be both a very advanced reader, and yet reading the same books as the other children in their class, simply because they're not emotionally ready. They might have the reading age of a sixteen year old, but that doesn't mean they are going to get anything out of Jane Eyre or whatever. So it might look like catching up from the outside, but it might not be.

And if you want him to meet other similar children, you could do worse than look at the Potential Plus big weekends - lots of activities, lots of similar children.

you could do worse than look at the potential plus big weekends
Alternatively she could just let her four year old, be erm like a four year old..
I can't actually believe I'm reading some of this stuff. Time to step away I think.

But celtic not all 4 year olds are the same.

At that age my DS mostly pretended to be a tractor but my friend's DS taught himself to read music !

I agree with you, OP. People talk a lot about kids catching up on MN. Of course it's true you get some late developers, but in my experience the ones who stand out as being exceptionally bright in reception tend to stay at the top of the class all the way up.

We were told our DS was unacademic and unimaginative by his reception teacher .

I struggled with early schooling only real realised I wasn't thick at secondary school - where I was top sets. I was later diagnosed dyslexic - so wasn't prepare to write my own DC off so young.

That teacher was very dismissive of our concerns - about him not picking up phonics and other things - we were told not to worry through end of year report was dire.

I turned to MN - for advice on how to help and support him. Armed with advice from here we put the time and money in to support him and by end of year 2 he was top sets and got level 3 in sats in one area he'd previously struggled.

He did have great year 1 and 2 teachers - but I think why he stopped struggling was home support and hard work as well as that rather than coasting in bottom/middle.

There are some children at my DC school other end - one in particular springs to mind don't have home support or interest - but are so bright they cope and do well with school.

Others DC are like mine who struggle but have home support and catch up - and probably see more of these parents posting on MN looking for advice.

Parental attitude can differ wildly - it came out recently another DC was doing some extra work that meant they were good at that area ( having previously seriously struggled )- teachers were supportive but other children told my DC that it was cheating the view of their parents.

We still have to emphasis hard work and giving stuff a try - even at less brilliant end they can worry about failing and therefore not wanting to try new stuff and worse they can have already formed view that it's hard and you have to get past that.

Look at the positives OP - your not having to go over basics every day with already tired DC - you can emphasis hard work in none essential areas - sport music -and you can do fun stuff. Later on in KS1 - I could see grounds for worrying about coasting - but reception seems bit soon.

Any suggestions? Anyone in a similar situation? Any places I could take him after school or during holidays where he can be in contact with really clever children (because I'm perfectly aware DS is just an intelligent boy, not a genius)?

Surely at 4 - it read to them practise reading/maths skills which can be done through games. Take them to child friendly museums - expose them to as much as possible of the world so they can developed their interests. Have a house full of wide range of books, games and toys - and understand at this age they are still learning through play.

I don't think other really cleaver DC would help at aged 4 in any way much.

I think if I'm reading the OP correctly, she isn't saying she wants her son academically challenged per se, more that she wants him to be in a situation where he's not 'the clever one ' all the time.

Certainly this can be an issue. Though perhaps not usually at 4.

There was a fascinating thread recently about underachieving and it was clear that for many many posters the early years of being told and seen as clever, of never finding things hard had had a very adverse effect.

At 4 he should just be playing and having fun whilst covering the basics.

One things for sure, in my sons class many of the top table in reception weren't the top table by year 6. There was a huge amount of movement between tables and a small handful of kids that had very relaxed yet super academic parents only started blossoming in year 2.

I agree that the OP is overreacting. In Reception, I was told by the teacher that my DC1, who was getting nowhere with learning to read, was thick (ok, the "thick" word wasn't actually used). DC1 has just got into grammar school with little preparation. DC2 was reading simple chapter books by the time she got into Reception, and for years I was told that she was way ahead of the rest of the class. Near the end of primary, not so much. I would just calm down and treat him like a normal little boy, which he probably is, letting him have lots of interests of different kinds and encouraging him to read lots of books.

I can understand that TheWordFactory and why that could be a concern later - but he 4 none of the DC have even done a full term at the school.

Some of them may not have attended nursery prior to school so may be doing an awful lot of adjusting and may not have encountered phonics before now but could immediately take to it- so the assumption they won't be seen as clever than the OP DC or surpassing him by the end of the year is odd.

Basically he been at school a 9/10 weeks - he doing very well - that's been recognised the teachers are stretching him currently I think OP could focus on the positives of that.

We are in a socially deprived area - the children my DC go to school with come from a huge range of backgrounds. We still manage to provide a stimulating environment for them to grow up in -and the school a good education.

Though do admit last few years we have worried about secondary school provision but our DC are older.

To quote Stephen king
'Talent is cheaper than table salt. What separates the talented individual from the successful one is a lot of hard work'

Ds is also pretty bright. When he was in Yr 3 he was assessed as being about 7 years ahead of his peers in terms of both literacy and numeracy. He was described by his class teacher as "exceptional but complacent" and the complacent bit was certainly fair.

On the advice of an ed pysch we moved him to the most academically selective school we could find so he would not effortlessly be at the top and there would be more chance of him being with children who did not perceive him as wierd. This has largely worked and we have certainly seen his work ethic improving as the level of competition has increased.

We must also be the only parents who do not pat him on the back for a result of 90+% in something. The question for him is always "did you do your best?" If the answer is yes and he found the test really hard despite having revised for it, any result would be great. If the answer is (as is often the case) he misread the paper because he was bored by it or didn't revise as he knew it all already, then the emphasis is on what should have been done. We always focus on the effort and the focus that something required rather than the result. Reading this, it makes us sound pushy, but as with many others here, both dh and I "suffer" from being clever but having a lack of work ethic.

thewordfactory
Many schools give their able pupils the chance to study university level modules alongside GCSEs and A levels via the OU.It is not a sign he was amazingly clever.

itsaknockout he was 11 and studying maths at Imperial.

Dazzle I agree that 4 seems awfully young to be worrying about this, but I suppose once DC are at school, this is where it starts; the labelling.

As I say it wasn't a live issue for me as neither of my DC showed any academic promise at that age . But having seen my friend's struggles with her DS, I don't discount anything.

They found themselves a very normal family thrust into a very abnormal world.

If he's two or three years ahead of his age, that would be considered quite normal in our local schools. Half the class are level 3 in year 2 or level 5 in year 6 in DS's a school.

If he was more in advance of that mathematically I expect he will eventually need to be somewhere where they can stretch him. Being advanced in English is different though as differentiation happens naturally within a class

I can see that working 7 years in advance mathematically he would need to be in the right place. Only 2 or 3 years in advance is less of a issue

So word factory. It must have been his parents pushing him along a lot at home ( .i very much doubt the primary school teachers were teaching him alevel maths/FM he would have needed to keep up at uni) So the others didn't catch up because their parents weren't hothousing.
It's quite interesting to read Ruth lawrence's views on raising her own child.She is determined he will havea normal childhood.She missed out on so much, and for what? she is not 'ahead' of others her age now really and lives in a basement flat in a rundown neighbourhood.

Well, quite. OP you could send her DS along to super-brainy conventions to surround him with super-brainy children, but I don't think it would convince him he's average, if that's what you're after. It would be more likely to taking him further along the route of thinking he is remarkable, because none of his classmates are there. The things that sticks in my mind about my early precociousness at school were having my own special shelf of books just for me, and my visits to Ed Psych and IQ testing people. All the 'special' stuff. Not group maths work.

If you get to the point where some sort of special intervention seems necessary, deal with it then. It's an interesting question how to deal with children who are "off the scale". IME moving to a more selective school doesn't necessarily solve the problem. I moved from state to 2 different private schools, then to public school, always warned that I'd no longer be the exceptional one now and I'd have to work harder. But someone has to be top in any group. If you are that person, each move just reinforces your belief that, actually, you are special. Scholarships (especially in the plural!) exacerbate it further. And then it comes crashing down round your ears when you realise you can't live your life through the written word under exam conditions. Getting a job at 16 would have been so much better for me than being locked away in an ivory tower to fulfil my intellectual potential. But at 4, being top set in maths and reading is quite a long way off having to engage with these issues. Think you might be projecting onto him a bit, based on your own experience OP? I think there is a real danger that in trying to avoid it, you end up putting him on an intellectual pedestal and create a problem where there wasn't one.

"she is not 'ahead' of others her age now really"

Stuff and nonsense. Being a maths prof. she's way ahead of me in maths.

erin99 I AM projecting! A lot. :) I know it's too early to be worrying about that, but I think it's good to pay attention to things from the beginning.

Most of the comments here were very helpful, and I'll definitely try to play by ear, focus in sports and music, provide stimulation, etc.

I just don't want him to be an underachiever like my siblings and I (we were all oh-so-clever at school). Wordfactory is the thread you mentioned a couple of years old? If it is, I remember it! It was fascinating to see so many people like me, all the stories were so similar...

itssknockout that's precisely the point! (re Stephen Kings quote). Our society still values talent a lot, praising the "clever" ones for having been born clever! (and the pretty ones for being born good looking, and so on). And I would like DC to see, from the very beginning, that being intelligent is not as important as it seems.

Anyway, I'm convinced not to think about that for the next few years (unless he gets labelled at school, but hopefully it won't happen. And so far I'm quite happy with the school and the teachers, so I'll try to leave them alone).

itsaknockout definitely not!!!!

My friend does not have the level of education herself to do that. She got a C at O level in maths. Does not read music. Does not play an instrument. Cannot speak any language but English. Her son is absurdly gifted in all these areas.

This child was not hot housed. She went back to work full time when he was 6 months old as she had no choice. He went to a child minder five days a week.

As I say, this is a very ordinary family.

But her child was born super-intelligent. He displayed unusual intelligence from a very young age. It has been a complete eye opener for me, watching it play out at close quarters.