Don't want DS to be seen as "clever"

[andnowforsomemoreofthesame]

DS1 has started Reception in September, as according to his teacher, he is the most advanced in the class in numeracy, and is in the highest group for literacy. Although I'm not too bothered about academic achieving at this age, I don't like the idea of him being in the highest group.

Even though the teachers are clearly stretching him, I would like him to be in an environment where he is closer to the average.

I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear, and I'm aware some people will just think I'm an idiot. But my point is that I hate to see people saying "clever boy" and things like that to him. I don't want him to think he is clever or better than anyone. I would like him to be in an environment where some children will be more clever than him, and where he won't be praised so much.

I'm saying that because I grew up thinking that I was clever, and it wasn't good for me. I am intelligent, but no one told me that intelligence is useless without focus, persistence, effort and a lot of other things. Today I like to be in a place where people are more capable than me, where I can learn. (and I have no proper career, which proves that being only intelligent doesn't get you very far)

I think he is fine where he is by now, but maybe in 2 or 3 years I would like to change schools. He is in a regular comprehensive primary (in London, and the range of abilities in his class is huge), and we can't afford private. I've heard I can try a grammar school when he is secondary age, or a scholarship in a private school. But is there anything I can do before that?

Any suggestions? Anyone in a similar situation? Any places I could take him after school or during holidays where he can be in contact with really clever children (because I'm perfectly aware DS is just an intelligent boy, not a genius)?

If you think I'm totally wrong, please don't flame me. Tell me WHY I'm wrong (if you CBA). I've changed my mind regarding education so many times in the last few years that, believe me, I'm open to different opinions.

Thanks!

As well, it's worth remembering that children come into YR with very different backgrounds, DS has also started in reception and is apparently one of the best at reading and numericy, but, he went to a preschool that encouraged that and did a lot of 1:1 time with each child, other pre-schools in the area were just a place to play, didn't do much 1:1 time with each child, if the children didn't show an interest, didn't do any phonics or reading books with them (other than a story to all children with most not being able to see the words). Numericy and simple maths also wasn't covered.

Plus, DH and I have always read to DS, he's always enjoyed stories and we've spent a lot of time in the library on weekends (nice and free activity!)

What I'm trying to say is being 'ahead' at this early stage doesn't mean gifted, it might just mean other children are just being exposed to this now, rather than your DS having been exposed to a lot earlier, therefore the other children might well catch up by this time next year.

Set against that, you might well be right to encourage your DS to be in a situation where he's pushed. A good school will do that, you can find that in the state sector.

DH went to a state grammer, and it seems the difference there is that all the children are bright and clever, so you won't end up the top of the class without additional effort, and it seems compared to my comp (in a non-grammer area), hard work was praised a lot more and valued amongst the children. It might be worth looking into if your DS continues to be above average.

Many teachers are very aware these days of the dangers of praising intelligence over persistence for the reasons you mention. It's a growing part of pedagogical theory. Read Carol Dweck's 'Mindset' fr more on the evidence but also practical tips on how to develop the skills of focus, persistence, increasing ability etc. and talk to your son's teachers about it!

oh and while selective education isn't really liked on here, it can help that attitude of being bright so not having to work.

At uni, the girl in the room next to me was a dentist student, to get to study dentistry at v good uni, she had to get straight As at GCSEs, and 4 As at A level. (no As then, am old). She had always been the best, always been the brightest, although she did work hard, she'd never been the average. She found it very hard to be on a course surrounded by people who were just as bright, if not brighter than her. A lot on her course struggled with that, they'd made "being the bright one" part of their identity and now they were just average for their group. The ones who seemed to cope the best were those who'd gone to private selective schools, who by A level, only other children just as bright were along with them.

If your DS might be "bright but lazy" then this might be a route you need to take for him. There are state grammers though, so if you cant afford private, you would have time to look to move to an area that still has the 11+ system.

I recognise this entirely, OP, both in my DS's situation and in mine. If schoolwork comes to you rather more easily than your peers, it is very tempting to coast along making little effort. I've always talked about how I'm proud of the effort he has made, and the progress, not the absolute level he's got to, as it were. We got lucky in that there was a little girl came into the class whose ability outstripped DSs, so he didn't have Easily Top Of The Class Syndrome any more.

What I have noticed (and which I gather is common in kids who find some things easy) is that he gets very discouraged when things don't come naturally - he will try and give up earlier than he should. This is really something to keep an eye on.

Thankfully, one thing that seems to have changed is that being able isn't seen as a social kiss of death any more. DS has had lovely friendships both with other able kids and ones who struggle a lot more.

Oh, and i just read MaryWestmacott's post above, and second the need for being "the clever one" not to be the thing they rest their identity on.

We're a couple of years ahead of you. He's now taught alone for Maths because even the top table stuff is too basic (this morning he was doinglong division for fun. Age six, one of the youngest in y2. Oh yes, in Roman numerals). I have spoken to his teacher about his coasting and she assures me he isn't.

I recommend finding something he likes but isn't naturally good at - for my DS that's swimming. He has the opportunity to strive, and fail, and try harder, and succeed.

And yy times a zillion to teaching how to apply oneself. But there is a balance to be struck. Honestly, the hassle I got about my one not-A* GCSE was actively damaging.

I always make the point to ds that there are thousands of kid his age in this country/the world and so comparing himself to his peers at school is pretty pointless. He has to do well for himself not in comparison to his friends.

Evidence does show that being told you have tried well is much better motivation than being told you did well because you're clever. When the kids do well we always couch any praise in terms of effort

I agree that you're right to bear this issue in mind - there's a ton of good evidence that labelling cleverness as an independent feature (or indeed any character trait, good or bad) is harmful. I agree that apart from the obvious praising of effort, and specific work, it's useful to get children interested in a hobby that they're not naturally good at. My DD does hip hop dancing, rather badly, but she enjoys it, it keeps her fit, and it makes her work in an environment where the other girls are better than her.

I think that the school should be ensuring that all DC aren't coasting along, and they should all be learning that achievement comes with work and persistence. I had a slightly similar experience, in that I didn't really have to work for many years, but then when it happened, I did it. Mostly.
I had low self-esteem as a teenager -- really low at times. Turns out I wasn't really overweight (I have a BMI in the normal range now, though on the top end, and I was quite a bit smaller then!). But I thought I was huge (I'm tall) and it really affected me. I didn't have a lot of social confidence. I'm really glad that I knew I had at least one thing going for me. I might have lost hope otherwise, because I wasn't sporty or attractive or popular or sexual or interested in boys and makeup or all the other things that teenage girls were supposed to be. So count your blessings - we all have different skills and strengths. Don't go to extra lengths to undermine his sense of his own strengths!

I know where you're coming from, OP. I was always academic and told by everyone how clever I was. (My gran used to carry my exam results round in her handbag so she always had the exact percentages at hand should she need to tell someone at church .)

I got mostly A at GCSE and straight As at A-level (pre A), then went on to get a First from Oxbridge. Everyone told me I would have a glittering career ahead of me, that I was bound to do amazingly with those sorts of results, etc. So I ended up with this terrible sense of entitlement about my career and assumed I'd just walk into a brilliant job and progress really quickly

What I, and everyone else, failed to take into account was temperament. I am bright but I'm also introverted and not particularly tough. I'm also not that hardworking because I never really had to work hard - it all came naturally.

I fell into a career that I thought sounded fun and exciting, and initially did okay just through intelligence. But I hit a wall a few years in because my natural temperament was completely unsuited to my job. I completely lost confidence.

I now write for a living, which is what I've always wanted to do, and what I've been told I'm good at since I was six years old. I'm doing pretty well again now. But I still struggle with things like client meetings and presentations. I have many friends who are less 'intelligent' on paper but are doing far better in their careers and make far more money because they're tougher, more outgoing, more practical, harder working...

I wish someone had helped me with the wider picture and not just focused on my 'cleverness' because figuring it out on my own has been a long and often painful process.

Help your DS with things like working hard, social skills, resilience (if he needs help with those things) because they're just as important as intelligence in later life.

He's 4. Lighten up!

You can ensure he isn't coasting. No child should be coasting, whatever their ability.

Give him opportunities to try lots of different things, academic and non-academic. He will 'fail' at some and triumph in others. This will help build resilience.

Praise the effort and not just the outcome.

The "most advanced in numeracy"? What does that even mean, at the start of Reception? They've only just started formal schooling; give it a term or two and the other kids could not only have caught him up, but accelerated past him.
And being in the top group for literacy is good, of course, but he's in a whole group of kids who are on the same level...
Not meaning to sound nasty or burst your bubble; but nothing in your post suggests you're dealing with a genius who has to be kept firmly anchored in case he floats off into space.

Thanks for all your views, it made really interesting reading, and helped me see the issue more clearly. I think MaryWestmacott put in words what I was feeling. I don't want "being clever" being a big part of DS's identity.

And even if the teachers stretch him, he will find out that he is more clever than his peers. Being in an environment where he ISN'T more clever than the other children would be good, I think (so far I think grammar schools are our best options).

Doing activities where he isn't one of the best is a good idea as well.

It's a bit comforting to see how being labeled "clever" was unhelpful to other people as well. And I'm so relieved to see it is changing. It's a shame that although schools and teachers focus on effort and not in innate ability, society at large still praises ability... Well, at least things are changing.

CountBapula That's me! You just described me! :)

Everyone told me I had a brilliant career ahead, and it just didn't happened because I wasn't tough, or patient, or prepared to work hard for a long time BEFORE getting the rewards. I used to write for a living as well, and I was told I was good at that since I can remember. I am good at that, but I never persisted in a single area (progressed very fast in the beginning, when things got hard I would just decide to do something else. Repeat the cycle until I had DC).

Can I PM you? I would love to know what you're working at. I'm a SAHM because I can't get any work that pays more than the cost of childcare (and DH salary makes me not entitled to any sort of help or benefits)

I don't think society does reward being clever though because you certainly don't see that in the workplace! That's the thing we tell the kids - you can be as clever as you like but if you don't have a rounded skill set you won't get anywhere.

Also clever is relative - dont compare yourself to a small cohort. There is always someone out there cleverer than you!

One classes top set can be another classes bottom set. But actually there are loads of bright kids about with some schools having more then others.

He will take his attitude from you more then the school/mates at his age. You need to teach him to value effort, kindness, good sportsmanship, cooperation and not purely valuing someone only as a result of their academic achievements.

Count V similar story here - although I crashed after my first career and haven't quite found my niche yet post childrearing.And yes many friends without basic gcses are far more happier and successful than i was!

I have a similar child and we''re not in a high achieving area. We may have a chance at private school but I don't know that that would nec be any better ( we wouldn't have the same social capital - not a great income so no skiing or pony lessons...) I do like that she has local friends of all abilities and sees inclusion in the classroom. However she's at infant school. It might be nice for her to enjoy learning through childhood with out pressure or the sense of failure. And the time to develop extra curricular activities.

I certainly avoided preschools with active phonics or numeracy as I wanted my daughter to learn through play! Yet she picked reading up in reception and flew with it. I think she might be genuinely bright like me.... But as I've said it's not worked easily for me.... So much to lthink about.

andnow Yes, feel free to PM me :)

Also there will lots of late learners in reception with kids suddenly excelling in years 2/3. Mostly kids that haven't been hothoused at home but who find their feet after a couple of years. Learning isn't linear.

As long as you value him for other qualities and not just intelligence, he will be fine.

dd1 is seen as the clever one in her class. I don't know if it's true, but it's what the other kids tell their parents. She's not at an especially high achieving school though, so I reckon her grades are probably very average by MN standards .

she is lucky enough to find the mainstream academic stuff fairly straightforward. However in art, PE and music it's a different story. We've got her in a sports club, and learning an instrument, and she finds both of these really challenging. The instrument in particular is showing her the value of putting the hours in, and it's good to see her having to push herself to achieve.

My son is another who was labeled as clever very early. He continued to be unusually clever and is now 19.

Here are some of the hazards of being clever for him: feeling like a failure if he is not the best in the class at everything, not because we ever put pressure on him but because he was used to always being ahead; feeling like he should do something that doesn't come so easily, because otherwise it's just too easy; being good at lots of things and unable to choose what he wants to focus on because he thinks he somehow should do everything; having assumptions made about him by other kids at around age 13-14, which were really hard to escape from.

I don't think there were any problems at all until he went to a very academic private school in year 5. I don't know if his discomfort came from the new school or from becoming more self aware as he got older.

So overall was going to an academic private school a good idea? It's the choice we might be making for yr 3.

I moved from a very academic school to an academic school for sixth form. That's when I found out I was clever.

Actually, I found out in assembly. I remember it vividly. They read out everyone's GCSE results (why?!) and my name was alphabetically late. I was absolutely cringing by the time they read out mine, which I thought not spectacular and a bit disappointing, and there was an audible gasp round the hall.

If I had gone straight from superselective to Oxbridge, I would have an odd idea of what clever is, but I certainly wouldn't have had an inflated idea of my own brilliance

He's four for heavens sake. Why do parents get so hung up on this? Do you know, in a couple of years time there will be another child who is 'cleverer' than him. And further down the line, many more so. I am very surprised that any teacher has told you that he is the brightest in the class. Teachers really don't talk that way imo,- especially about four year olds.

Also, children change a lot over their school years. You may find yourself shocked that your ds us not quite as clever as you think as he moves through the school curriculum.

At primary school they are in a cohort of 15 - 90
At secondary school they are in a cohort of 60-400
At sixth form they are in a cohort of 200-2000
At University they are in a cohort of 20-200

But at each level, that cohort is becoming progressively more selective.

Teaching persistence, resilience and a sense of humour will go a lot further than stressing about being "the brightest"

Am still really glad my kids have not attended selective schools.

DDs A level Maths group numbers over 300 : I have no idea where she is in the group but she is thriving on being stretched.