Don't want DS to be seen as "clever"

[andnowforsomemoreofthesame]

DS1 has started Reception in September, as according to his teacher, he is the most advanced in the class in numeracy, and is in the highest group for literacy. Although I'm not too bothered about academic achieving at this age, I don't like the idea of him being in the highest group.

Even though the teachers are clearly stretching him, I would like him to be in an environment where he is closer to the average.

I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear, and I'm aware some people will just think I'm an idiot. But my point is that I hate to see people saying "clever boy" and things like that to him. I don't want him to think he is clever or better than anyone. I would like him to be in an environment where some children will be more clever than him, and where he won't be praised so much.

I'm saying that because I grew up thinking that I was clever, and it wasn't good for me. I am intelligent, but no one told me that intelligence is useless without focus, persistence, effort and a lot of other things. Today I like to be in a place where people are more capable than me, where I can learn. (and I have no proper career, which proves that being only intelligent doesn't get you very far)

I think he is fine where he is by now, but maybe in 2 or 3 years I would like to change schools. He is in a regular comprehensive primary (in London, and the range of abilities in his class is huge), and we can't afford private. I've heard I can try a grammar school when he is secondary age, or a scholarship in a private school. But is there anything I can do before that?

Any suggestions? Anyone in a similar situation? Any places I could take him after school or during holidays where he can be in contact with really clever children (because I'm perfectly aware DS is just an intelligent boy, not a genius)?

If you think I'm totally wrong, please don't flame me. Tell me WHY I'm wrong (if you CBA). I've changed my mind regarding education so many times in the last few years that, believe me, I'm open to different opinions.

Thanks!

I think when your kids are at secondary school op, you will wonder why this was ever even important. There is so much more to education than being at the top table or in the top set.
It changes so much as well, particularly as your children get older. What you think is a big issue at four or eight becomes completely unimportant at 12 and 15.

celticlass, you're missing the point spectacularly.

1 - I don't want DS to be on the top table. I want him to be in an environment with other high achieving children.

2 - the other children probably won't "catch up". I know DS is a very intelligent person (not a genius). He will probably continue to be more intelligent than the average. As you can see by my story and others' on this thread, an "intelligent" person is no better than the others. Or more sucessful.

the other children probably won't "catch up"
ROTFLMAO

Sorry but with 4 year olds you know nothing of the sort

My four yr old was bottom of the heap, special help, crying, tired all the time, could not recognise his name let alone write it in reception. He's at Cambridge now ...

andnow not missing the point at all. The fact is that you appear to be investing a great deal in your sons ' intelligence'
I want him to be in an environment with other high achieving children
Why op? Why is this so important to you.? What about the average children, or the special needs children. Are they not worthy of your sons friendship or time.
Oh, and by the way, a four year old being ' top of the class' does not in any make make a super intelligent child. There are so many people who are deluded when it comes to their own children.
Just concentrate on your child being happy op. That's all that matters.

The other children probably won't catch up Wtf And you know this how?
OP, you are in for such a rude awakening in the years ahead.

OP it sounds like the only person branding him unusually clever is you. He will pick up that YOU think he is clever, so all your fretting about him being spoilt by being in top sets is irrelevant.

The top set readers in our Y3 are, mostly, a completely different group of children from the top set in YR. The world is full of really clever people. Some of them will probably have children at your school.

Some links to back up what Kesstrel said:

www.nytimes.com/1998/07/14/science/praise-children-for-effort-not-intelligence-study-says.html

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9862693/Praise-childrens-effort-not-their-intelligence.html

There's lots you can do to stop him assuming he doesn't need to try - particularly as you're aware of the issue.

My DS is clever at maths and literacy, but there are lots of areas where other children are more able than he is. He enjoys sport but isn't a natural, his singing is enthusiastic but flat, his fine motor skills mean that his art work is still at the lumpy stage etc. etc.

I don't think his classmates value "clever" in the same way that adults do, and so far he is having to do lots of work to keep up with the whole curriculum (even though he finds bits of it very easy).

Don't rush to assume what his problems at school will be. The shift to more formal learning in Y1 may suit him, or might leave him tired and grumpy, he might stall for a while in Y2 while his classmates catch up. There are a lot of unknowns before he even gets to the end of KS1 - let alone schoosing secondary schools.

Why are people so hurt that I said that he is intelligent? I've spent everyday of the last 4 years and a half with the boy, I know he is intelligent. I want him to make the best use of this. (Instead of ending up like me). That's all. Relax, people :)

How funny assuming the kids won't catch up. Learning isn't linear.

In DS's reception class yonks ago there were three tables set ability wise. When the class hit year 6 many moons later, half of the original reception bottom table were top set. Out of those children, three had level 6 sats.

Dear God, op, there is such a rude awakening ahead of both of you...
This is just a giant stealth boast, really, isn't it? My child is so far ahead at school that the other children will NEVER catch up, but I just want him to be ORDINARY, whatever can I do...
A pound to a penny he is as ordinary as the rest of them, but hot housed to bedamned.
There is no WAY the teacher told you your 4 year old is top of the class, far in excess of anything the other kids could hope for. No way

Lots of people have intelligent children. I do and have always know.

Personally I want my children to be at a school with a fantastic ethos and pastoral care. I'd rather they were in a top set at a normal school in order to give them confidence though. They already know about good sportsmanship and they are very supportive of less able kids

I have a clever DS, teachers used to rave a bit about him, one even called him a genius.

He has levelled out a bit and is no longer top of the class, this has been hard for him to take as he was built up so much early on!

He is settled and happy though.

I am planning to send him to a good local comp rather than a pushy academic private school, as I think it would suit his personality more (he is private now, but it is a bit too pushy, which for him oddly does not work so well, he was happier coasting in the top set of a normal primary)

I agree that being clever is overrated, I read an article recently which really struck a cord with me:

www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/10623941/Your-child-is-not-a-genius.-Get-over-it.html

You should never be afraid of your child being seen as clever though, it DOES have advantages.

I too do not believe that the teacher told you your son was top of the class. I have a few teachers amongst my friends, and not one of them would say this to a parent!

Chandon I think the article is a bit patronizing. Of course I know my children are not genius. And that our life would me much harder if they were.

As discussed previously on this thread, being clever may have advantages, but if the "being clever" is a huge part of your identity, you're probably going to have trouble later in life.

Yes, Celticlass, I'm LYING. The teacher never said anything like that. You're right. In fact, I'm a middle aged single man drinking lager at home and making everything up. Just to irritate some strangers in the internet.

I am in two minds over this. He is only four and children enter school with vastly different abilities and from dissimilar backgrounds. Some will have spent time with a main carer at home learning to read, others will have attended an excellent nursery and others less fortunate will be barely dry and never have encountered a book before.

It is well documented that there can be a huge degree of levelling out, some children who appear extraordinarily bright at 5 end up decidedly average later on. But by then complacency and laziness may also have kicked in because they have been told they are clever.

On the other hand, from experience this isn't always the case. DS1 now 14, was adding in columns at 2.5yrs, reading at 4, doing IGCSE maths at 10 and studying from GCSE text books in all subjects at 10. He was identified at 18months by the health visitor "as quite the brightest bunny I have met" and he now explains complex theoretical maths/ physics/ and philosophical concepts to me. He works hard on the things that interest him at home and school. I do worry, like you OP. I was bright but bored but I think schools are generally a bit better at making provision these days.

The only thing I would recommend at 4 years is to watch and see, follow his lead, if he shows an interest in things help him with this. Find things to do outside of school and work subtly on areas of weakness such as social skills, work ethic, attitude etc.

So what are you going to do to add extra facets to your DS's identity in addition to the "clever" one?

I'm not hurt OP, what a strange thing to say. But I do think he'll get much more of a complex/label from you, convinced others will never catch him, than he will from being one of the top set in anything or everything.

I'm another one who easily coasted through school, stumbled a bit at GCSE coursework where I had to be self motivated, although my general ability carried me through with 5 Bs, 3 As and 4 Cs which everyone thought was wonderful. (I feel like a bit of a fraud because they all went on about my hard work and I think, yeah, but if I'd actually worked as hard as I could I could have got straight As.) Then fell totally on my arse at post-16. I dropped out of two A Level-level qualifications, talked my way into a degree, dropped out of that too, talked my way into a qualification which isn't strictly but is normally postgrad, absolutely aced that (I reckon because it was only 13 weeks and I had DS and was working part time and I knew it was going to be hard so pushed myself and stuck rigorously to a timetable).

It's good to hear schools are better now. I don't think they even noticed TBH that I was slipping - my teachers at the post-16 education were puzzled at the apparent gap between the potential I'd shown and my drive to do any actual work, and my dad was open enough to ask me "What the hell happened?" when I got results spelling BED at AS level.

I think that my biggest fault resulting from all this is that I was never pushed out of my comfort zone, meaning I find it really hard and scary to do that now, and also I never had to experience failure. So now I actually can't deal with it at all when I fail at something. To the point that I get actual panic attacks, inability to sleep, crying so much I literally feel like I'm going to choke or suffocate - it's ridiculous and I know it's ridiculous but it doesn't stop it at the time. It prevents me from being able to actually calmly work out what went wrong and how to prevent it from happening again, too, because I just can't think about it at all without going into this extreme downward spiral.

I read a quote recently which was "If you're not failing, you are not trying hard enough" and I think that's what I needed when I was younger - some challenges which I could have failed at, tried again and succeeded rather than being allowed to just give up on everything I wasn't so talented in (sports, any musical instrument, a lot of social stuff) - I don't think it has to be academic IYSWIM? Just ensuring that he has experience of challenges, learns it's okay to fail at things and how to learn from that and carry on. Because at some point demands from education will outstrip his natural intelligence and if he's never had to work out any challenges, that's the point at which he'll stop trying.

I know exactly what you mean, anyway, and I think some posters are misunderstanding the point you're trying to make.

OP
You know what your child is capable of, but unless you have spent equal amounts of time with dozens of other four year olds over many year you have no idea what other kids are capable of
and therefore what the potential of other children is.

Seriously, let the poor little tyke enjoy being 4 and worry about how amazing he is when he's earning more than you.

BertieBotts I really empathise with your story. I have ended up a perfectionist with anxiety about failure. I don't push myself because it is easier to fail not having tried, than to fail having given it my best shot. I self-sabotage constantly. I have tried to help DS1 avoid this trap. We talk about the things he is interested in, I help with projects sometimes, and we talk about his future plans. I tell him how important hard work is over raw talent and remind him that he isn't infallible and its fine not to always succeed but to enjoy process. The journey is the bit that should be enjoyed.

It's weird, because I never ever thought of myself as a perfectionist but I realised recently that when I have these emotional meltdowns it's a reaction to something I consider a failure and that, actually, I don't deal at all well with failure. Yet I don't have high expectations for myself (I don't think). That's part of my distress when something goes wrong - I feel like I've failed at something so basic.

I should probably have counselling. Again.