Should I complain about this teacher?

[Allisgood1]

Dd is in y1. She is a early birthday (sept) so oldest in her class. She is also very very shy. It probably took a couple months for her to speak in a whisper at nursery and a month in reception.

I had parents evening the other night and DD's teacher had the following to say:

*dd is in the lowest centile in maths
*her writing and reading are in the bottom third of the class.
*she has flagged her to the SENCO because of her age and performance.
*when I mentioned she's always found numbers difficult and I've often wondered if she's dyslexic with numbers she said "it wouldn't surprise me if she is dyslexic. Does it run in your family?"
*dd does not respond to adults, ever. Not even non vocally.
*dd will be having a speaking and listening group as "she needs to learn to respond to adults"

I don't think she had one positive thing to say and I've run through the conversation over and over in my head. Prior to talking to the teacher I had a quick chat with the head who said dd was starting to respond to him, albeit very quietly, and that at an assembly she answered his question quietly in front of everyone. Quite different to "she doesn't talk to teachers, ever".

Dd has a tutor and I've asked her about her performance levels. She says dd is exactly where a child in the autumn term of y1 should be and that she doesn't understand why teacher was so negative. She said dyslexia shouldn't have been mentioned.

Do you think I should go to head teacher about this? I feel the teacher has a v negative attitude towards dd and has flagged her being shy as an issue.

I agree that you need more time, so I would speak to the teacher early next year and ask to see her again for a longer appointment so you can discuss the issues in more depth. I would also ask for the SENCO to come to the meeting too.

I agree with plotmissing that it might be worth asking for a referral to the Speech and Language Service to get some appropriate support for your dd.

If your dd isn't responding to the teacher then it is going to be incredibly difficult to assess her understanding, which may account for some of her low assessment levels.

I also think that the tutor is acting in an extremely unprofessional manner in criticising another teacher who she doesn't know, on the basis of one side of a story from you. You are the one who brought up dyslexia, not the class teacher.

A 10 minute time slot isn't the time to tell a parent their child is under performing. - really? When is a good time then?
And what would you rather have heard in this 10-min slot - oooh she is soo lovely and doing so well?? I am sure she is lovely btw, but surely sharing her concerns was a valid thing to do?

It seems you share them too - teacher is trying to address them.

I have a child who has struggled in school - the sooner I could have heard the better tbh. I know it can be hard to hear but it sounds as if it was not a surprise to you.

If you are puzzled as to why it has got worse since reception - well, again, I would still want to know and want to see what we could do to help.

Parents evening is exactly the time to tell parents a child is underperforming. Although you already know this because you have hired a tutor. Stop being obtuse and blaming the teacher. Sorry that your dd possibly has some SEN and sorry that it will take a while to work through. This is not the teachers fault. However she delivers the facts to you doesn't change them. Last year the facts may have been sugar coated slightly, whereas a new teacher

I hope you get together with the senco and come up with some strategies to help your dd.

Not all teachers are brilliant at managing parents. I don't think it's fair to complain about this teacher because she didn't present the information in quite the way you wanted.

That should say

Wheras a new teacher may see different things in your dd. Strategies that worked for one member of staff won't always work for another. Your dd does have to respond to staff and encouraging this is generally a good thing.

Btw I would also be skeptical of the criticising tutor. It is easy to criticise from teaching a child in a 1:1 situation. The classroom changes things.

Another thing is that there was clearly no handover between reception and y1 teachers. This isn't a reflection of y1 teacher, however, but disappointing to hear.

I trust the tutor. Why would she lie about DD's level? I know my dd and if she isn't responding to her teacher at all then something else is up.

I'm beginning to wonder why you asked the question though, as you've had 3 pages of people telling the best way forward is to focus on the issues your dd has, and how she can be supported, rather than focusing on the fact the teacher didn't faff around saying lots of nice things when she told you how your daughter was doing, and yet you just keep coming back to wanting to complain about her. Why ask if you dont want to hear what everyone thinks? [Confused]

But where have I said recently that I am going to proceed with a complaint? I actually have taken on board what is being said,for the record.

Why would the teacher lie about your dd's level? What does "something else is up" mean? Your op states that your dd had exactly the same issues with responses to her teachers in both Nursery and Reception, yet you seem determined to blame her current teacher...

Well I couldn't disagree more with some aspects of what what most posters seem to be saying. This is for a number of reasons, the first of which is that you've stated the teacher compared your DD to the rest of her class, whereas her tutor compared her to a national standard.

OP please read this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/2219583-Ability-levels to see the view of a respected teacher from this site, mrz, regarding comparing children to others in their class and why this is poor practice.

Secondly you didn't mention dyslexia, you said "dyslexia with numbers". The term for this is dyscalcula. It was the teacher that took your expression and ran with dyslexia rather than understanding what you meant by 'dyslexia with numbers'. I knew and I'm only a parent.

At the end of reception your DD's report stated that she had met the relevant expectations, at the start of yr 1 she was moved down a book band and you hired a tutor. Given that teachers and parents regularly post on here that plenty of children often start yr 1 on pink / red band I am surprised no one's given this more thought. What band is your DD on because unless it's lilac non-word books she could still be at the bottom end of normal, which is not the same as behind?

Thirdly the tutor did not criticise the teacher - she said she didn't understand the teachers assessment and she didn't think dyslexia should have been mentioned. Well perhaps that's because 6 is still too young to make the diagnosis because reading 'just clicking' can happen in yr 2 & even 3 - this is mentioned on MN threads all the time.

What I am interested to know is, if your DD doesn't respond, at all, to any adult at school, how exactly has she been assessed? No data or missing data doesn't equate to being behind. I'm not saying she isn't behind, just that there's an obvious logic issue here.

I really hope you get in touch with a support group for selective mutism because you are going to need to be your DDs advocate if this is her issue and the school lack understanding in this area.

It takes very little time to include positive comments which are all the more important when delivering worrying news to a parent - a poor bedside manner is no longer acceptable for GPs, why is it acceptable for a teacher?

None of my views are critical regarding the teacher putting in place interventions, which is also something the OP clarified - the issues for the OP are the delivery, the mismatch between two professional view points and the lack of engagement regarding possible selective mutism. I hope I've understood correctly OP? And for you and your DD and apologies for the length of my post - it is a foible I'm afraid!

Her previous teachers never ever suggested her shyness was a major issue. They never made it an issue they never told her she "had to respond" like this teacher told dd. Having read up on selective muteness, making it into an issue is not going to help. Instead they used other strategies to being dd out and these worked. Why didn't teacher speak to reception teacher about dd? Why does my end of year report state that dd is "becoming increasingly confident and using her big voice in the classroom"? There is a clear mismatch of info between the end of last term and this half term. On top of bed bf told she was below in writing and reading (which doesn't match tutor report or end of year report).
I don't think teacher lied about her levels. But I think dd for some reason doesn't respond to this teacher well it could be a personality clash or something else but I can't get it out of dd what it is.
Why did the head have positive things to say (he sees dd daily) but teacher had nothing psi tube to say? Why does teacher say she doesn't respond at all and head says she whispers? Which is it?

Thank you diamond. I am glad someone understands where I am coming from. Teacher was definitely not comparing her to the national standard. She was on blue level reading and has been moved back to yellow. Many of the other kids in her class have had this happen too so not just dd.
Am in contact with other posters who have children with SM.

Your DD. Clearly has a number of issues, why didn't you make an appointment with her new teacher at the beginning of the year to discuss them?

You're bobbing in & out of denial, it's not helpful.

A child being 'shy' starting nursery - perfectly normal.
A child being a bit shy on entering Reception, normal.
A child only just starting to speak to her teachers at the end of her reception year - not at all normal.
A child not speaking to teachers and other adults in Year 1, not acceptable to be put down to 'being shy'.

What did you do over the summer holidays to try to get this sorted out?

If your daughter is having some issues at school the transition from reception to year 1 may well account for the backward slide. You might not see the same at home because she wont have the same difficulties as she does in the class room.

It's a difficult for transition point for a lot of child, especially those children who are needing extra support.
Also the change to formal learning from early years may well have made her difficulties more obvious. It did with my son (ASD)

I think she was being upfront with you but it's hard to hear I know.

The teacher sounds very concerned about your child perhaps you need to look at why.

Your DD might be a set way through the C, but it means nothing if you aren't comparing it to her immediate peers. Our classes are working well ahead of the C

I don't get that comment at all, to me it says the school is more concerned with results and having a class of similar, high ability pupils than children who may"only" be at the national average. The focus should be on what individuals are capable of and helping them achieve that, not whether they are top, bottom or middle of the class which is neither here nor there to me. You could have a class all working to a certain level and one pupil is a tiny bit below, but still high ability compared with the national average. But according to the govts "wonderful" new system, they are labelled as bottom of the class.

Allisgood1:

Having had the reverse sitatuion - having been told for 3 years that all was 'tickity boo' - when it wasn't - I think you need to stop and realise that what the teacher is saying is that your child's performance and behaviour is a concern.

S/he doesn't want to label your child hastily (dyslexic/ aspbergers/ autistic spectrum/ etc...) but s/he does want to refer your child to the SENCo to see if they need more support.

Not responding to adults - not even making eye contact is 'classic' of certain learning disorders. And I think goes well beyond just being shy.

I also think you need to bear in mind that by law teachers now have to report any major concerns to social services - so a silent, unresponsive child is going to send all sorts of alarm bells ringing - and that may well be why they're looking at you as if you have 3 heads. I think it is very improtant that you remain calm, convey you are supportive & appreciative of their intervention and realise that your child is gaining their attention for all the wrong reasons.

I'm slightly perplexed why you have a tutor in Year 1 - but glossing over that - something's up if for a Year 1 class your child is struggling to keep up. Obviously there's no guarantee that being one of the oldest means work and school life comes more easily - but it tends to be the case.

I think you need to separate your emotions in this situation from the information the teacher is giving you - which is her assessment of your child's performance and I think an honest, professional expression of concern that something is amiss.

Finally do be aware that you pay the tutor - and their livelihood is rather dependent on you continuing to pay them - that relationship may result in someone saying things less bluntly than a teacher who is not in your pay directly (although of course you contribute generally to teacher's salaries through taxation).

I realise you've been given information you didn't want to hear - but have a look at MN discussions - many of us are or have been incredibly concerned and are dealing with schools insisting all is well. You really are fortunate to be in a situation where people working with your child are being honest and are trying to do their best by her.

I think it is entirely possible that your DD appears to work at one level in the classroom (due to being very shy and not wanting to do anything much at all if she's not comfortable in the environment), when she is capable of much more in a familiar, safe setting.

This IS an issue. Think about the future - exams, moving between classes in secondary school etc. I have taught children with selective mutism (who wouldn't speak AT ALL in school) - they listened well and worked to their ability, progressing well and at least in line with the others. We used comprehensions to check reading book levels and worked round it as much as possible. I have also taught children with other special needs, who rarely spoke in class but who also struggled with concentration in large groups, with social interactions at their table and who just found a classroom setting stressful due to the number of people present. Those children might have appeared to be selectively mute at first, but there were actually other (diagnosed) reasons for their quietness. We had a diagnosis, and were able to adapt as much as possible for them - but they did need those adaptations, and we needed to know exactly what to do to help.

Complain? This teacher may have an abrupt way of expressing things, but she has clearly worked hard at assessing your daughter, observing, identifying issues and has made plans to help her.

If you'd met a useless ineffectual teacher who smiled, said DD was lovely and everything was OK without having a clue about your DD or the rest of the children, or any of their needs, you'd not be complaining.

Your daughter has got on well with several other teachers and her shyness has improved. This teacher seems not to have the gentle and encouraging manner which probably helps your daughter to open up and show what she can do. The teacher sounds a bit abrupt and negative in her approach to you; she may be brusque with her class, and your daughter may find it hard to respond to the teacher.

Your daughter sounds to me like she is learning normally, but needs very sensitive and gentle treatment. Perhaps she does have some mild dyscalculia or dyslexia; the main thing right now is for her not to be pushed into selective mutism. I have seen a boy pushed much deeper into this condition by aggressive and confrontational treatment coming form good and concerned teachers who had no understanding of his problem.

Some children can take time to feel "comfortable" around new people / environments so the teacher has given your daughter half a term to settle into a new classroom and new staff.
I'm really not sure how anyone not in the classroom can comment on how the teacher interacts with children.

Honestly I think she told you stuff that you already knew, your upset with her and that's understandable.

A complaint will get you nowhere, you need this lady on board. Work with her to address the problems, the last teacher my have been gushing about your DD, but she didn't get the intervention that was required.

No one likes banes but don't shoot the messenger, go back for another. Appointment and ask about the positives.

I know she needs intervention and support and I never ever said she didn't. My conversation with the SENCO was about what support she would be getting, what I needed to do to help, how I am going to set up a meeting Togo in at the end of term and see where we are. In Jan I fully intend to send someone who specializes in things like selective mutism in to advise the school and put plans into place for dd.

As for what I did over the summer to help, what was I supposed to do? The teacher didn't say dd was a concern and that she was gaining confidence. I work d very hard with her on number recognition over the summer. My mom who is a speech therapist also worked with dd (she has no concerns about her learning skills). Having had DS just as school started I did not go in as my hands are rather full with 3 kids including a newborn . I maintain that there should have been a handover and there should have been a meeting between last years teacher and this years as soon as a concern was raised. I also maintain that the head told me something thing very different to the teacher .
I have decided not to say anything to the head about this.

How do you know your daughters teacher hasn't spoken to the previous teacher? There certainly will have been transition information passed to the Y1 teacher

I'm not sure why you are taking the word of a tutor who presumably you pay over a school teacher. If she is where she should be then why do you need her especially as you seem unclear as to what the concern about her reading is? The issue may well be a lack of confidence and engagement so she is not demonstrating her potential at school but that needs addressing in itself so a referral is not necessarily a negative. Your points 1 and 3 suggest she is being assessed in an age adjusted method, not simply compared to her cohort.