Armed Forces' proselytism in primary schools and the question of war

[kchornik]

In the wake of the atrocities committed in Gaza, it is more urgent than ever that our children learn that war is a very serious matter and should be avoided by all means.

This week I was shocked to hear a Flight Lieutenant using the words ‘cool’, ‘fun’ and ‘exciting’ to describe his job at an ‘Inspirational Talk’ for Year 6-children and their parents, organised by a primary school, which my daughter attended. The LT is currently a member of the Royal Air Force and has served in Iraq and Afghanistan, among other countries.

After showing a film depicting his spectacular pirouetting skills – sound-tracked with Hollywood-style, heroic music –, he recounted his career in the RAF, stressing how great his job was. He made no mention of his training or participation in armed conflicts – how odd, given that these are central remits of the armed forces! – and did not show any awareness or concerns about the humanitarian disasters caused by wars. Instead, he presented his job as a sporting adventure.

Worryingly, most children appeared positively impressed by his account. The youngsters’ questions all tallied with the partial and superficial information given to them. ‘What do you feel when you spin?’, asked one boy. In his answers, he even suggested that some could join the RAF. I wonder in what ways teachers believe these promotions might be ‘inspirational’.

Attending this talk made me realise the extent to which it is possible to manipulate and decontextualize issues of enormous implications, and that we have not sufficiently educated our children about the horrors of wars.

[identifying features removed by MNHQ]

Sorry - this thread is moving quickly - my last post was meant for Hooby, about 7 or 8 posts back.

Janine - Mum can you explain how to your mind they are linked? Your pithy posts don't really give much to engage with

How rude - is it really necessary to resort to personal insult?

Finan The experience of war is as you say so far removed from those of us who have never experienced it.
I have knowledge of what it is like and I deal everyday with the aftermath. I have yet to come across a soldier who glorifies it.

If a 16 yo whishes' to become a solider because of hearing about whizzy planes when he was 11 yo then that boy should not be a solider.

Chill out, guys- am I going to have to call NATO to come in and break this up?

JanineStHubbins Mum can you explain how to your mind they are linked? think of it this way, how have the reports you have read establish head count for the dead? How much detail does the military release with regards to soldiers being shot and the circumstances under which it happens etc.

Last week some RAF jets were scrambled to escort a private plane into Stansted after it lost all communication with air traffic control. DH is one of the many engineers who keep those particular jets airworthy.

I would imagine many people would have be grateful to him and his colleagues had there have been something suspect about that plane!

Of course I don't financialwizard. I don't claim to, it's as far removed from my life as one could imagine.

I have no idea largely because I wouldn't want to be in that position and wouldn't follow that career path. My whole point is that I find it agonisingly pitiful that these situations come about, that I don't want my DC to think that this is an ok way to live. You differ, your DH differs. That's fine. You teach your DC something different to me with mine. That's fine. That's our choice. We should be allowed to have that without the state influencing in a biased manner by allowing the attempted recruiting of 11 yos and by not telling it as it really is.

Some people would be up in arms, excuse the pun, if the OP had said that an army person had visited her DCs school and shown them pictures or video of the results of conflict. They would be demanding to know what right the school had to allow that to happen, why they were not given advanced warning and the choice to either allow the child to partake in the event or not, and rightly so.

We are, I feel, slowly having our parental choices taken from us by state schools. This is one example, the contents of a lunchbox is another but IMHO it matters more when it's an ethical or moral issue. I'm not comfortable with the way it's going in our state schools.

And I maintain that there are other situations, perhaps like the example I gave in my earlier paragraph, where those who are ok with what happened in the OP's story might not be ok with the erosion of parental choice.

I wish your DH a safe and happy career and that his lack of experience of awful events continues.

Craic

hooby we agree

However I deal with real time issues. If my children are exposed to something such as RA man for example, instead of storming the governors meeting demanding it never happen again, I choose instead to impart my wisdom and expand what was discussed as appose to merely disapproving of it.

The one question (I've discovered) that any member of the armed forces hates to be asked by another member of the public is "Have you ever killed anyone"?

So they don't glorify it at all. And their job should not be belittled. By anyone.

Wow lucky kids, my kids would love to meet one of the red arrows

:) Flossy.

I agree there too! But I'd have done both - been pissed about the lack of informed choice and the biased presentation and told the buggers so and discussed the event, my views and reasons for them with my DC.

Actually, my DC just might have put a hand up and said, please sir, that's all very fun and jolly but what about the other side of forces actions that you're NOT telling us about?!

this is one of the most interesting threads I have had on here in a long while

Agree, Flossy Also agree that children need to learn about different career paths, then discuss with their parents before blanket disapproval.

mine would too hooby

The job I have means my children are aware of the awful side of the forces. In fact they only know the awful side. Sometimes not bringing my work home is not option.
This hasn't deterred my DS and he is adamant he wants to join. I am of course worried and unhappy but I accept that his decision is an informed one and not born of 'brainwashing'. I will support him and not belittle his choice of career. I just pray I continue to support him as a mother and not in a professional capacity.

This wasn't about career paths though.

The most OP described was the Flt Lt saying it's possible to join RAF as one (small? Large? Who knows?) part of a presentation on show flying (much of which was video on aerobatics manoeuvres).

The Red Arrows aren't a recruitment team.

Recruitment teams (correct me if I'm wrong) don't focus on the u16s.

Not unless your in the Simpsons

I don't envy you your profession, it sounds very demanding and distressing and I'm sure I couldn't have the courage to do it Flossy. All credit to you.

This is one of the most interesting discussions I've taken part in, or ever seen, on MN.

Going off on a tangent, is parental choice being eroded within state schools in many different ways or am I just an arsey madam? You can all tell the truth!

It is a job that I love even when I am in tears at the end of the day.

I accept what the schools teach has they are state schools. My DH is on the parental board so has some input but at the end of the day it is blanket teaching. People somewhere decide what my kids should learn.

We (as parents) choose to expand on their daily learning and express constantly impart our views on various subjects. We hope that this gives them the opportunity to have an informed decision/opinion instead of taking what the teacher is teaching a red.
We hopefully teach them to question what they do not understand. This backfires though as they constantly question my punishments/decisions authority

Oh yes, doesn't it just backfire sometimes! I've taught my DC never to accept things on face value, question it all. Now they question me!

Smart move, hoobs!

how have the reports you have read establish head count for the dead?

Well, they certainly don't do it by talking to soldiers and asking how many dead people they have seen, which is what your method appears to be. There have been various ways of gathering the information, from house to house polls asking how many members of families had been killed (one of which - the biggest - came up with the figure of over a million dead; a few others found around the 600,000 mark, another thought it was around 300,000), to information from morgues (much lower figure because lots of bodies were just never recovered) to information from police and Iraqi military in conflict zones etc etc. There are lots of problems with collating the information though, because we bombed the fuck out of their infrastructure so lots of people's deaths were just never recorded, and people were displaced from areas of conflict (understandably) and therefore weren't around when the various polls were conducted.

I hope I have raised well adjusted thinkers but I worry that have raised opinionated arseholes

It's a fine line and easily crossed so I assume we will nail it with the grandchildren confused]

cruikshank Well, they certainly don't do it by talking to soldiers and asking how many dead people they have seen, which is what your method appears to be. I don't recall saying I had written any reports nor do I recall quoting figures for how many were killed. I believe it was yourself who was providing everyone with the facts.

Ooh, another one here whose child questions my authority. Yes, yes, it's great that he thinks for himself and asks the tricky questions yadda yadda, but does he have to do it to me?

Re parental choice, my biggest bugbear is the religious element present in all state schools - the only way you can avoid it is by taking them out of assembly altogether, which I don't want to do, because that's when they get all their little notices about what's happening and who's passed their violin exams and whose birthday it is and whatever. I'm all for assemblies but I really object to the godification that goes on in them.

Pithy isn't an insult.

How much detail does the military release with regards to soldiers being shot and the circumstances under which it happens etc.

Ah, we're talking at cross purposes. It's civilian deaths I and others were talking about. Not deaths of UK armed forces.