Armed Forces' proselytism in primary schools and the question of war

[kchornik]

In the wake of the atrocities committed in Gaza, it is more urgent than ever that our children learn that war is a very serious matter and should be avoided by all means.

This week I was shocked to hear a Flight Lieutenant using the words ‘cool’, ‘fun’ and ‘exciting’ to describe his job at an ‘Inspirational Talk’ for Year 6-children and their parents, organised by a primary school, which my daughter attended. The LT is currently a member of the Royal Air Force and has served in Iraq and Afghanistan, among other countries.

After showing a film depicting his spectacular pirouetting skills – sound-tracked with Hollywood-style, heroic music –, he recounted his career in the RAF, stressing how great his job was. He made no mention of his training or participation in armed conflicts – how odd, given that these are central remits of the armed forces! – and did not show any awareness or concerns about the humanitarian disasters caused by wars. Instead, he presented his job as a sporting adventure.

Worryingly, most children appeared positively impressed by his account. The youngsters’ questions all tallied with the partial and superficial information given to them. ‘What do you feel when you spin?’, asked one boy. In his answers, he even suggested that some could join the RAF. I wonder in what ways teachers believe these promotions might be ‘inspirational’.

Attending this talk made me realise the extent to which it is possible to manipulate and decontextualize issues of enormous implications, and that we have not sufficiently educated our children about the horrors of wars.

[identifying features removed by MNHQ]

OK, here's a question for all, no matter what side of the fence they sit on.

Do you let your DC watch the news/see or read the papers when there are stories and images of injury and death caused by warfare? I do appreciate that some DC might be too young to read or considered too young to view, but aside from babies and toddlers how young is "too young"?

If not, why not?

cruikshank it looks like you are laughing about the fact (and it is a fact) that hundreds of thousands of innocent people died in that conflict. Is that your point? To make it quite clear, I was not laughing at the fact that hundreds of thousands of innocent people died.

There's quite a difference between an individual serviceperson's experience and the overall result of an operation, Mum. Not to mention the fact that it's entirely human to downplay events/experiences which reflect poorly on the serviceperson in question. These are pretty basic tenets of any research.

Perhaps you could answer as to what your lol point actually was?

And you know that soldiers only kill civilians.

That is not untrue (the killing of civilian's) however it is not exclusive either. That is not a soldiers sole purpose and you are very wrong if you think it is. The killing of civilians is always wrong and abhorrent no matter who/which army is the one pulling the trigger.

The fact still remains that the A pilot was here to discuss whizzy planes and nothing else. The fact that he gained his wings in the RAF is just that. A fact.

Cruikshank - And what heinous crimes did the Iraqis commit against us

You quoted me incorrectly. At no point did I say the Iraqis committed a crime against "us". But you appear to think that is what I said. When I didn't. Read the posts again, if you please.

Policemen kill for political ends?

That's a bit sweeping isn't it?!

And Shipman is a red herring. He was not allowed to kill under any given circumstances, it was not part of his job or that of any doctor, he was a murderer who happened to find the opportunity and the means to kill through his line of work. A soldier - some soldiers (making that clear!) are permitted to kill under certain circumstances.

And if someone from the Red Arrows goes in to give an interesting talk to a bunch of school children, then great. How many school children does anyone honestly think will make Red Arrow grade? You have to learn to fly a plane, after being absolutely fantastic at maths. That is a great start, actually. Tell children they have to work hard at maths. What is wrong with that?

At the end of the day, members of the police force, armed forces, firefighters, etc, etc, do what they do so we can all sleep peacefully in our beds.

They go into schools to talk about their jobs.

Excellent. Gives young people another career option. Better than robbing houses or mugging old ladies

Thanks hoobypickypicky and I have agreed with a lot of what you have said as well.

To answer your question, I've always had the news on around my son. When he was really little, he didn't get it at all. As he got older, he got some bits and filtered the rest out because he didn't understand it. I found it was quite a natural process as to how much he would pick up on and ask about, according to what he could cope with. Now he is older still (9), we have lots of discussions about current events and he knows a fair bit about what's happening in Gaza and Ukraine. He knows about UK politics too, could tell you a fair bit of who is who in the Cabinet and on the front bench of the opposition etc. He might be a child, but he's also a citizen of the world and I think he needs to know about what's going on in it. I don't think, or at least I can't remember doing it, that I've ever turned anything off when he's around. Out of my friends, I'm quite unusual in that though and I know that not all of them agree with me on the subject - they don't want their kids to be upset, or to try to process things that they can't understand, which I can fully appreciate. For my part, I think that kids will take whatever level of meaning they can out of what is presented to them.

JanineStHubbins Not to mention the fact that it's entirely human to downplay events/experiences which reflect poorly on the serviceperson in question. interesting the people I spoke were put into therapy to discussed what they saw and experienced in Iraq in detail. Some had actually taken photos.

I would also suggest that perhaps those people you spoke to were reluctant to speak to you about their experiences due to your negativity towards the armed forces.

Perhaps you could answer as to what your lol point actually was? Perhaps reading the posts I made that preceded it will make it clearer.

Hooby

In answer to your question no. I do not let my children watch the news. However during the evening meal we discuss certain topics which we feel they should understand without the influence of dramatized media.
This week we have discussed the issues in Israel/Gaza and the affect it is having. We have dumbed down the graphic detail of parading dead children (DM has done this all week with pictures) but we have discussed the deaths of many innocent people.

There was a recent story in our local news regarding an empty food bank in our area. We discussed that and added to our weekly shop this week ad deliver he good to the church.

As parents we have a role to play regarding what our children know and understand about the world hey live in.

At the end of the day, members of the police force, armed forces, firefighters, etc, etc, do what they do so we can all sleep peacefully in our beds.

Unless those beds are in Iraq. Or Afghanistan. Or Pakistan. Or Yemen. Or Somalia.

I have read all your posts, Mum. Still none the wiser.

In what capacity have you spoken to ex-servicepeople? That they ended up in therapy to discuss their experiences in Iraq doesn't surprise me at all. It was a vicious, cruel conflict, for Iraqi civilians most of all.

There's nowt wrong with that, Evans but to some of us encouraging 11 yos to join the RAF, which is what the OP said, not the Arrows, is wrong.

Let the parents decide. If the RA pilot didn't override the school's request to not speak in terms of recruitment, and there's no reason to blame the pilot in question as far as I can see, and if it was the school's decision to allow him to speak freely without refraining from raising the issue of recruiting, they should have given parents an advanced warning and allowed them to opt out of what is for some of us as emotive and important an ethical matter as religious observance. Opting out is allowed for religious assemblies, is it not still? In my school DC were allowed to briefly opt out of biology lessons where dissection took place, on moral grounds. So why not this ethical issue?

*JanineStHubbins In what capacity have you spoken to ex-servicepeople? therapy to discuss their experiences in Iraq

And children like Malala Yousafzai have hope of going to school, despite the threats from the Taliban, against whom we are fighting.

Totally agree with cruikshank.

Besides, I'm not entirely clear what individual servicepersons' experiences may or may not have been in Iraq has to do with the number of excess deaths that occurred there. Two entirely separate issues, surely.

Officers in rapid response or SWAT teams are also permitted to kill under certain circumstances. Doctors will, on occasion, administer a dose of morphine so that a terminally ill person will slip off peacefully. Soldiers aren't the only ones who are trained to kill. If that's your bag you do have other options other than the forces.

Ultimately I think there are always going to be dickheads out there who somehow achieve political power and will act like cocks to those weaker than them. Would I like us as a country occasionally step in and do what we can to help? Yes! We don't exist in a vacuum. The UK slashing military spending isn't going to result in everyone sorting out their issues by having a nice chat over a mahogany table. What needs to be addressed is the standard of substantiation and consultation required before we wade in, not the forces themselves.

JanineStHubbins Besides, I'm not entirely clear what individual servicepersons' experiences may or may not have been in Iraq has to do with the number of excess deaths that occurred there. Two entirely separate issues, surely. If you say so

hooby do you have any idea what kind of minefield it is for a trained infantryman to make a split second decision to kill or be killed, because that is what it is.

My husband is a frontline infanteer. Due to complete his service soon. He has completed tours of NI, Iraq, Afghanistan, Sierra Leone, Bosnia shan'tcarryon he had never killed anyone, or shot anyone actually. Someone he was with did though, not a civilian, and even though this person had their finger on the trigger with their gun pointing at them and the soldier followed the rules of engagement there was still a full blown enquiry where the minutest detail analysed.

Also I grew up around the military, and married into it. Most of my friends are too. I can count on one hand the amount of times that any of them have talked about war.

cruikshanks, you've raised your DC as I've raised mine.

Flossy - "As parents we have a role to play regarding what our children know and understand about the world hey live in."

And that is what I've been saying all along! I agree with you 100% and although your way of doing it is a little different to mine and to Cruikshanks, you're doing it all the same. Educating your DC in your way, according to your morals and according to what you feel it is best that your DC will and should understand of the world at his age.

Some parents, as said above, positively censor war related media altogether and don't talk of it either. That's not my way but I respect their decision, it's their child and their choice,

And so it's my child and should be my (or the OP's) choice on how to present the lifestyle of the military man or woman. Not for the school to give what appears from the OP to be a biased and potentially unethical version of events.

Choice. Respect for parental choice on their ethics and morals. That's all I'm asking for.

Well I'm an atheist, but I was never allowed to withdraw my children from RE lessons. Your point being??

We should have enough confidence in our young people to allow them to make their own choices. Regardless of your own views.

The children would have taken home letters telling the parents that the school had organised talks from different employers and employees. It's a lot like the 'show and tell' stuff. In most cases the parents would have been asked if any of them were willing to come in and talk about their jobs, ours certainly were. Maybe the OP was just pissed off because she wasn't asked to take part . Like I said before when I went in the kids had already had talks from a paramedic, a woman that did special effects movie makeup and a woman that ran a rising school and took part in event racing.

Interesting careers to open children's minds, thats all.

Mum can you explain how to your mind they are linked? Your pithy posts don't really give much to engage with.