confused! suspension/exclusion?

[DeadMansBones]

I was phoned by my sons school today and told that I must collect him due to an emotional outburst and that he couldn't stay at school in the frame of mind he was in.

of course I immediately went to fetch him, not sure what kind of state I was going to find him in. he was actually sitting calmly in a chair a bit tearful. it seems he had been asked to read out his homework to class and had refused and been rude and uncooperative. obviously this is unacceptable and we will be dealing with his behaviour.

i asked if he would be able to stay at school as he had calmed down and were told no the decision had been made that he was to go home.

what I am confused about is the school have said that this is not a suspension/exclusion, my husband spoke to the school when he got home from work and they said that it was agreed with me that it would be best for him to come home, this simply isnt true I specifically asked if he could stay at school.

my feeling is that they had lots going on today (school panto etc) and just didnt want to deal with things properly.

can they just send kids home without formally suspending them?

Because provision and support is supposed to be based on need, not cause.

So if the child needs behavioural support in order to access his learning it matters not whether the parents or the school are 'causing' it.

It is also a record that the setting is not coping with his needs with their current resources, and a sign that they need to get help. That 'can' be in the form of investigating any home triggers and initiating help there, but even that won't happen if the school simply sends the child home unrecorded. There won't then be the evidence to justify a referral to any agency for support.

but what agencies could support?
Apologies that I am obtuse. When DS goes to secondary would be lovely if I could make a case for him to get some kind of extra support (I have no idea what that would be, though).

It seems normal to me to send a distraught kid home without having to make a paper trail about it.

I honestly would have understood if ds had been distraught or really worked up but he wasn't he was calm, a little tearful, but calm.

Because a paper trail has to include the reason the child was sent home which is a way of ensuring accountability and a considered decision and ensure that any patterns are made clear.

Otherwise there is no safeguarding for that child should they need 1:1 support at certain times that the school would rather not spend money on. They could simply call up Mum at tricky time and child will be removed, requiring no budget implications.

Additionally, if that child gets sent home every time he finds school tricky then he doesn't learn coping strategies or importantly doesn't have to be taught coping strategies and could learn that the behaviour he displayed rewards him.

Finally, services a child could access with documentary evidence are CAHMS, OT, Communication Therapy, 1:1 support at certain tricky times, and his parents could access parenting classes, behaviour management classes, support groups, Social Services support, respite, short breaks and finally, this evidence could feed into the process towards a medical diagnosis if relevant.

All these opportunities are lost if the teacher simply decides the child is being annoying, calls up mum and sends him home without a record.

'The young boys behaviour may be the schools issue; but usually it is not. Conduct at school normally reflects other aspects of a childs life, coping mechanisms, confidence, learning skills, home life etc.'

Oh FFS. There is no 'usually'.' Schools are incredibly swift at judging parents, aren't they?! I spent years being judged by people because of my 'rude, insolent' son who I MUST be not setting any limits for and mollycoddling because he would often 'refuse' to speak to adults. It took until he was 9 for him to be diagnosed autistic (like my Dad) and selectively mute (like 3 of my husbands' cousins). School NEVER worked proactively to support him because they assumed it was a parenting issue.

You know what? Children do well if they can. If they are not doing well, it is because they cannot. Sometimes that is because of parenting or home life, and just as often it is not, unless you are blaming parents for their genetic inheritance.

"School has made it clear they can do very little & DS doesn't qualify for any syndrome label, so no chance of a statement."

Just to echo what Starlight said; a statement can be obtained without a labelled 'syndrome' or disorder. Equally, children with 'syndromes' etc. may not need a statement. It is about how need impacts on learning- or at least it should be. Children can be statemented for ESBD without being diagnosed with a condition, for example.

sounds like your sons school have been a bit crap too lljkk.

I wish tethers and starlight would come and work ds's school, you certainly know your stuff.

Even a chaotic or traumatic home life would not preclude a child from being statemented. IME, it makes it more difficult, but it is certainly not impossible.

I have no idea whether the OP's child meets the threshold for statementing or not, but right now neither does anyone else, not even the school as they have not had him assessed.

The school cannot have it both ways- either they cannot cope with his behaviour (as they are sending him home) and require more support, or asking for more support would be inappropriate and they can cope, which begs the question: why on earth are they sending him home if they can cope?

lljkk these outbursts are happening at school. In this boy's case, they only happen at school. They are happening because his needs are not being met in some way, which means that something needs to change so that they are met. Even if the school have done everything reasonable to prevent the outbursts and to de-escalate the outbursts, if they happen (both of which require logging, so that people aren't having to re-invent the wheel or, indeed, some square thing which didn't work at all well as a wheel) if they feel that the last recourse is to send him home, then they need to do this lawfully. If, for any reason, the situation progresses, those records may be necessary in order to make a judgement about where to go next, or secure funding if it is needed, for more intensive interventions or provision.

And what if the OP had to leave work to pick up her DS? What if she needed evidence when pulled up by her own HR for frequently having tlo leave early?

So, keeping records might demonstrate school's deficiency, or they might demonstrate that school is doing everything it has the resources or expertise for, so can they have some extra help, please, or they might keep people out of trouble.

Very good points

Okay so now I can't stop thinking and worrying that maybe there is something 'wrong' with ds and I have missed it and let him struggle for all this time.

Outbursts at school in the last year.
Difficulty in riding a bike,learnt a couple of years ago but is still a bit wobbly, doesn't practice much to be fair.
Can't tie laces - gets frustrated very quickly with this.
Bit clumsy with knife and fork.
Can be quite shy with strangers, especially adults, I am very shy myself so haven't been the best role model.
Had a speech delay.
I think he was pretty much on track for all his other milestones.
Hates losing and is easily frustrated when isn't instantly good at stuff.
Loves computer games and would happily do nothing else if it was left up to him.

Should all of this be ringing alarm bells?

Don't think of it as alarm bells or a problem. It's part of who he is. He is still your lovely little boy.

But sometimes a "label" helps; in my experience it can prevent a more negative and less useful one.
My DD got the label "Aspergers" which helped people deal with her outbursts, and prevented the negative one her Head teacher was giving her of "manipulative". (Having Aspergers means you cannot be truly manipulative.)

Labels if they exist can help just as they give some short hand hints on personality and behaviour. Eg. A label of "introvert" could explain why a child finds a very sociable, noisy and lively school day tiring; and why they cope best if given some down time.

Keep a record of incidents with school and anything else which may seem relevant. It could help if you do need to seek a "label".

I think there is no reason for panic but sufficient on your list to warrant further investigation - your GP is the best route to follow to ask for a referral to CAMHS or community paediatrician.

At a similar stage with my ds I remember saying to the head-teacher that we had wondered briefly about AS but we felt he didn't tick all the boxes so we didn't think so - she replied that she thought he was definitely on the ASD spectrum. He now has a diagnosis! It is worth asking school or leaders of any clubs he attends for their opinion. I think sometimes as a parent you regard behaviour as a normality because you don't see how other children behave in similar circumstances.

I know some people are frightened of having a label attached to their child but certainly we have found that more help comes from the "AS label" than the "naughty" or "poor parenting" labels which he had prior to diagnosis.

Would the school not mentio it if they had suspicions or are they not allowed to?

I feel utterly shit, not about him being labelled, he is who he is, but that we have done nothing, he is 10 ffs. Feel like such a shit mum.

StarlightMcKingsthree

You are misinterpreting in your reply to my post I think the difference between the problem, call it the diagnosis, and the management 'treatment' to use a medical analogy. I was talking about the underlying problem likely to be in and around the child. You, I think, were talking about the management i.e. its the schools issue.

The underlying issue (problem) is usually with the child but the school will have a role in addressing the issues i.e. manage them. The issue can be a learning need but it may not.

Another thing I have thought of is that he doesn't really get excited about anything.

I have always just put these things down as being his personality, he is my eldest so I didn't have any expectation of what he should be like.

Now off to ring the GP, feel absolutely awful.

Please try not to feel awful although I know that this is very difficult. It is the holidays (no school) so don't let that situation affect your xmas. As you can see from all the posts and advice given, their is no 'cut and dried process' and what happens in schools covers the full range from brilliant to disgusting and cruel. With regards to any diagnosis, this is carried out by health professionals and not school staff. Some experienced teachers have a good 'eye' for possible conditions and some don't (to the negative extent of dismissing the idea completely), so you mustn't expect the school to be helpful in this area. Make the appointment with your GP for the referral to Camhs to start the 'health' assessment process. And good luck and best wishes to you and your ds.

Appointment made for next monday.

I'm trying not to worry but I suffer with anxiety myself and the last few weeks have been tough.

is 10 really late to get a diagnosis?

Just wanted to say that primary school verbally told me no difficulties in school. A teacher at secondary said at parents evening that she knew DD was under camhs but there was nothing "wrong" with her, she just needed to grow up!

Roll on 12 months and dd diagnosed with Aspergers, ADHD, auditory processing difficulties, significant complex sensory modulation disorder, hypermobility and is described by all as having complex needs!

I recently sent for DD's school records and it turned out there had been difficulties in primary with her being on the sen register with IEP's for 3 out of the 4 years she was there! We knew nothing about any of it!

it makes no sense, why wouldn't they tell you!?

When I have had meetings in the past with the senco she sits and looks at me like I should have all the answers, she barely suggests anything.

Deadmans, they don't tell you because there is a cultural preference to lay blame with either the child, or the parents, as Oddbins had demonstrated.

It wasn't until ds started causing problems in class that we heard about his other difficulties like being unable to cooperate in group work, that the other children avoided him, shouting out in class. Up till then the teachers had always said he was OK when we asked whether there were any social problems as the lack of party invites suggested something was up! It is relatively common for children to be OK in infants but to hit problems in juniors as the social skills of their peers develop. It is also quite common for problems not to be identified until secondary and at least the timing means you should be able to get proper support for him at this stage so is not all bad.

And I don't believe in giving a child a label either. Labels are for luggage.

I see a Dx more as a 'signpost' you can hold up whenever anyone approaching appears lost. It's always your choice when you hold it up or not.

Whats the point of having sencos and behaviour support in schools if they are not giving parents the feedback they need to get help or realise there is a bigger problem.

I now dont understand why the school have encouraged us to apply for the CAF but havent referred him for an assessment for a statement. They made it sound like the CAF is the route to get any outside support.

Because SENCOs and Behavioural Support aren't answerable to parents. They are answerable to school Management, their preferred ways of working and their budgets.

They are also usually significantly undertrained and/or trained by LAs who focus on 'managing' the child in mainstream rather than 'educating'.

You're not a shit mum. How could you know that the people paid to help your Ds either can't or won't? How could you know that the default is blame the child or the parents? How could you know that to for the school to consider changes to their own practice rather than seeing themselves as salvation for a suffering child due to home life, would mean them having to find funds from their delegated but not ring-fenced SEN budget (that unspent could pay a gardener)?