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Original poster

confused! suspension/exclusion?

151 replies

DeadMansBones · 20/12/2013 17:50

I was phoned by my sons school today and told that I must collect him due to an emotional outburst and that he couldn't stay at school in the frame of mind he was in.

of course I immediately went to fetch him, not sure what kind of state I was going to find him in. he was actually sitting calmly in a chair a bit tearful. it seems he had been asked to read out his homework to class and had refused and been rude and uncooperative. obviously this is unacceptable and we will be dealing with his behaviour.

i asked if he would be able to stay at school as he had calmed down and were told no the decision had been made that he was to go home.

what I am confused about is the school have said that this is not a suspension/exclusion, my husband spoke to the school when he got home from work and they said that it was agreed with me that it would be best for him to come home, this simply isnt true I specifically asked if he could stay at school.

my feeling is that they had lots going on today (school panto etc) and just didnt want to deal with things properly.

can they just send kids home without formally suspending them?

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mummytime · 21/12/2013 07:48

I echo the advice above. You don't need to know what the school could be offering, you just need to know that they should be doing something.
Do keep the diary. If possible get your GP to refer him to CAMHS.

I have also lived with the dread of school phoning (although they never asked me to take DD home, just to go in for another meeting).
CAHMS was the best thing to happen to us. Mainly we just got a label and a little advice, but both have actually really improved things. I have just got through a term without being called in for and "incidents" (except lack of eating, which we are working around).

Original poster
DeadMansBones · 21/12/2013 08:13

thank you all so much for taking the time to reply.

I'm so worried about him, I think he starting to become very unhappy, yesterday he kept saying all my friends are good why cant I be good.

oneineight, school havent mentioned any other issues he seems to mix well with his peers and has lots of friends. the only other concerns I have with him are that he took ages to learn to ride a bike and is still pretty wobbly on it, he cant tie his laces and is a bit clumsy with his knife and fork but tbh he hasn't spent masses of time perfecting these skills. If he isn't good at something he tends to never want to try it again because it knocks his confidence.

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Original poster
DeadMansBones · 21/12/2013 08:20

and goodness I think you have hit the nail on the head, he gets embarrassed.

when these problems started last year his outbursts werent angry, he would hide under tables and refuse to come out or just go very quiet and into himself and refuse to talk, move or do anything really.

it seems to have developed into more anger with shouting at teachers and stomping off, the worst case he threw stuff around the classroom but all the other kids had gone to lunch. he has never tried to hurt anyone.

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GoodnessKnows · 21/12/2013 09:12

I hope you don't mind me saying, and this is by nooooo means a diagnosis... but those are typical characteristics of dyspraxia. Don't be alarmed. Very common and nothing to worry about but may benefit from some paediatric OT. I know one good one but there are many: Catherine Williams www.handsup.org/html/body_about_catherine_williams.html
I went to a professional seminar led by her. I'd have her assess my DS in a heartbeat IF I was interested / concerned (which you're not nor should be). I'm a primary school teacher and dyslexia assessor. I've worked with a scaredy-cat head.

GoodnessKnows · 21/12/2013 09:15

And I used a man who is just wooooonderful to help to teach my hypermobile son to ride a bike as he too gets put off things he isn't instantly good at. Anyone reading this is welcome to PM me for his number. His name is Dara

Original poster
DeadMansBones · 21/12/2013 09:17

I was literally just reading about dyspraxia on another website.

he seems to fit some areas but not others, his handwriting is pretty good when he concentrates and he has good enough coordination to play on a football team.

I will book a gp appointment though and see about getting him a referral. I just want to get him some help.

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Viviennemary · 21/12/2013 09:40

I don't know the legalities of exclusion and suspension. But it does seem a bit unreasonable of the school to insist that he reads out his work if he didn't want to. And not out of any sort of wilful disobedience. Could you request a meeting with the teacher to discuss how to avoid such incidents in the future.

Original poster
DeadMansBones · 21/12/2013 09:47

It does seem unnecessary doesn't it, but then I doubt myself and think why shouldn't he do as he's told like everyone else

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GoodnessKnows · 21/12/2013 09:50

With these sorts if things, not all characteristics need be present. There's a Tonsley House thread onN and I think there are parents with tonnes of expertise in dyspraxia among other things and, more importantly, how to remediate (awful word) / best help and support children with it. Lots rave about it. I'm going to take my son there. A man called Robin. Again, not all boxes need be ticked.

GoodnessKnows · 21/12/2013 09:51

Of - not 'if'. Grrrrr to my typos

GoodnessKnows · 21/12/2013 09:51

Of - not 'if'. Grrrrr to my typos
Tinsley House. Not Tonsley. Grrrrrrrr

OddSins · 21/12/2013 10:12

I think the school were reasonable to ask you to take him home given the circumstances of the last day etc. Im not sure an argument with the school will achieve anything; its trying to understand your sons issues thats the problem. I hope he opens up to you - but perhaps a little space to let him work it out?

Original poster
DeadMansBones · 21/12/2013 10:23

I dont want an argument with the school, I just want them to do what they're supposed to.

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OneInEight · 21/12/2013 10:52

OddSins it is not reasonable if school are using this as a behaviour management policy rather than providing support to actually ensures the child receives the full education to which he is entitled. It might have been the last day but he is still entitled to be there.

StarlightMcKingsThree · 21/12/2013 10:54

Oddsins, is it okay to have an argument with the school about them not getting to the bottom of her Ds' issues, given that they are school-based?

mummytime · 21/12/2013 10:55

But to get the school to do what they are supposed to you may need an argument. Sorry.

Also if schools exclude all those who find it hard to conform, then yes everyone will obey. If you only have round pegs they will go though round holes with no problems, it is when you get hexagons, squares and triangles you have problems.

Lots of children would find reading aloud unpleasant/difficult. At my DCs secondary they usually ask for volunteers to read aloud. If the learning objective is reading aloud, then the teacher should have planned for and be able to help those for whom this task is not easy (and it should be started in small groups in my opinion).

Bad behaviour is often/usually caused by: a) past experience; b) anxiety; c) not feeling safe.

Even in my DDs case, with a school with lots of very experienced teachers and which really does try to help every child, the cause of her problems was a "surprise" to them - which honestly shocked me as I had thought it was "the elephant in the corner" at most meetings we had had.

Original poster
DeadMansBones · 21/12/2013 11:50

I'm so glad I started this thread, armed with all your advice I feel better equipped to get the school to take appropriate action.

I'm going to arrange a GP appointment also.

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jb707 · 21/12/2013 17:04

Deadmans my son is having very similar issues. He is in yr 2 and the school has only just made us aware that 'he has always been intense, angry and withdrawn; also on the autistic spectrum'(quote from report to SS that the head wrote and didn't realise we would be able to see). He has been at the school since 2010. I am so frustrated and cross that they failed to inform us and put measures in place to help him when he started in reception.
We are going through the schools complaints procedure and waiting for a panel hearing with governors.

OddSins · 21/12/2013 17:44

The young boys behaviour may be the schools issue; but usually it is not. Conduct at school normally reflects other aspects of a childs life, coping mechanisms, confidence, learning skills, home life etc.

The school will often want to explore the home circumstances.

lljkk · 21/12/2013 18:04

It is actually in your son's interests to have a written record of such behavioural incidents as this will help you in the battle to get support for him.

Sorry to hijack, but why is this a good thing? What difference does it make?

And what is so bad about an illegal exclusion?Sorry, I'm not following that.

DS had IEPs, though I don't remember signing anything for them, either. Confused

Good luck with GP, DMBones. Ours referred DS to anger management classes which just finished, I hope a good thing but only time will tell. DS is also yr5. PM me if you want. School has made it clear they can do very little & DS doesn't qualify for any syndrome label, so no chance of a statement.

StarlightMcKingsThree · 21/12/2013 18:07

'The young boys behaviour may be the schools issue; but usually it is not.'

And there you have, in one sentence the reason why 1 in 5 children with AS or HFA have either attempted or succeeded at suicide by the age of 25.

The OP SAID there were no issues at home, only SCHOOL. The behaviour occurred at SCHOOL. Why or earth shouldn't the starting place for causal factors plus support start with SCHOOL?

StarlightMcKingsThree · 21/12/2013 18:19

'to hijack, but why is this a good thing? What difference does it make?'

It's a good thing because it highlights the school's inability to enable the child to access a full-time education without additional support. If it goes undocumented then the support needs are hidden and provision to meet those needs will not be forthcoming.

lljkk · 21/12/2013 18:27

Playing devil's advocate, why does a written record make a case for the school or innate deficiency rather than a parental or other deficiency? I still don't understand how it means very much.

Original poster
DeadMansBones · 21/12/2013 18:29

I see the illegal exclusion as a bad thing because it felt like it was for the schools convenience not because it was the best thing to do.

ds was sitting quietly in a side room when I got to the school, he hadnt been violent or aggressive. The schools behaviour policy has numeroud steps, none were followed, isolation for example.

I just want the school to know that I know it was incorrect procedure so it doesnt become a habit.

I was just looking at the schools latest ofsted report and it mentions reduced exclusions and behaviour incidents, yes probably because they are not recording them.

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